Blues @ Leafs - Mar. 25th, 7:00pm - SN, TSN 1050

[ZBBM]

A lot of us have become Connoisseurs of Leaf Failure over the years.  I think we can look forward tonight to an especially sublime new chapter.

 

[Derk]

Go Leafs. For the sixth game in a row, this is "the biggest game of the season". Of course, this is one no one expects them to win. Maybe they surprise us with a 'uge victory.

 

[bustaheims]

Very true.  My point is that it's hard to argue against the idea that the coaching needs to change and the defensive needs a major upgrade.

Well, I think the level of the talent upgrade needed on the defensive side of things could very well be mitigated fairly substantially by the change in coaching. Some upgrades are definitely needed, yes, it's just what upgrades (outside of a couple obvious ones) and how extensive they are is sort of hard to put a finger on right now.

 

[Corn Flake]

Anyone want a pair of tickets for tonight?

willing to sell them at face value. $70 each.. section 307 row 15.

PM me.

Face value - you're a good man.  If I wasn't 700 kms away...

Only do that here for those of you who tolerate me.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

Go Leafs. For the sixth game in a row, this is "the biggest game of the season". Of course, this is one no one expects them to win. Maybe they surprise us with a 'uge victory.

only to crap the bed on the weekend?  ...i want this team to pull this off..i really do ..but it's so hard not to be negative right now

 

[Highlander]

so if I understanding you correctly, you give me 70 per seat and I have to tolerate a 5-1 loss to the Blues..man that won't even cover the bar tab.

 

[ZBBM]

Very true.  My point is that it's hard to argue against the idea that the coaching needs to change and the defensive needs a major upgrade.

Well, I think the level of the talent upgrade needed on the defensive side of things could very well be mitigated fairly substantially by the change in coaching. Some upgrades are definitely needed, yes, it's just what upgrades (outside of a couple obvious ones) and how extensive they are is sort of hard to put a finger on right now.

This is pretty much the core of where (as I see it) I disagree with you and Potvin.  Cashiering RC is necessary, but not sufficient.  Upgrading the defensive skill of our D corps -- which is too skewed towards offensive defensemen -- means making a smart trade for either Phaneuf or Gardiner because they are the two with most trade value.  (I assume Franson is gone and that Rielly will stay.)  As I've said before, I wish it were Phaneuf going, but that's highly unlikely so it leaves only one choice, regrettably.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Very true.  My point is that it's hard to argue against the idea that the coaching needs to change and the defensive needs a major upgrade.

Well, I think the level of the talent upgrade needed on the defensive side of things could very well be mitigated fairly substantially by the change in coaching. Some upgrades are definitely needed, yes, it's just what upgrades (outside of a couple obvious ones) and how extensive they are is sort of hard to put a finger on right now.

This is pretty much the core of where (as I see it) I disagree with you and Potvin.  Cashiering RC is necessary, but not sufficient.  Upgrading the defensive skill of our D corps -- which is too skewed towards offensive defensemen -- means making a smart trade for either Phaneuf or Gardiner because they are the two with most trade value.  (I assume Franson is gone and that Rielly will stay.)  As I've said before, I wish it were Phaneuf going, but that's highly unlikely so it leaves only one choice, regrettably.

But the problem I have with that, is that the type of skill provided by guys like Gardiner isn't really teachable whereas any player can be taught defense (aka can't really 'teach' Gardiner's skating for example).

 

[bustaheims]

This is pretty much the core of where (as I see it) I disagree with you and Potvin.  Cashiering RC is necessary, but not sufficient.  Upgrading the defensive skill of our D corps -- which is too skewed towards offensive defensemen -- means making a smart trade for either Phaneuf or Gardiner because they are the two with most trade value.  (I assume Franson is gone and that Rielly will stay.)  As I've said before, I wish it were Phaneuf going, but that's highly unlikely so it leaves only one choice, regrettably.

And, as I've pointed out, replacing guys like Gardiner with stay at home types addresses the symptoms of the problem rather than the cause. The Leafs need to focus on improving their puck possession game, and stay at home types tend to not be strong puck possession players. First and foremost, the Leafs need help keeping the puck out their own end. That will, in turn, go a long way to improving how the deal with the puck when it is in the defensive end. Defensive minded defencemen tend to be too focused on the latter to provide the kind of help the Leafs need on the former.

 

[Redleaf]

Anyone want a pair of tickets for tonight?

willing to sell them at face value. $70 each.. section 307 row 15.

PM me.

Face value - you're a good man.  If I wasn't 700 kms away...

Only do that here for those of you who tolerate me.

I'm the beneficiary. Thanks again Corn Flake. That's awesome!

My son will get his first taste of Maple Leaf Hockey tonight, however porous the defense look

 

[mc]

I'm going to go out on a limb here (a very thin and fragile limb about to break from very high up) and say that the Leafs win this in regulation. They have been known to up their game every 20 games or so.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

I'm going to go out on a limb here (a very thin and fragile limb about to break from very high up) and say that the Leafs win this in regulation. They have been known to up their game every 20 games or so.

you know..i don't even mind if they win this one in OT..that's how generous i'm going to be tonight

 

[Corn Flake]

Anyone want a pair of tickets for tonight?

willing to sell them at face value. $70 each.. section 307 row 15.

PM me.

Face value - you're a good man.  If I wasn't 700 kms away...

Only do that here for those of you who tolerate me.

I'm the beneficiary. Thanks again Corn Flake. That's awesome!

My son will get his first taste of Maple Leaf Hockey tonight, however porous the defense look

Awesome!

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Anyone want a pair of tickets for tonight?

willing to sell them at face value. $70 each.. section 307 row 15.

PM me.

Face value - you're a good man.  If I wasn't 700 kms away...

Only do that here for those of you who tolerate me.

I'm the beneficiary. Thanks again Corn Flake. That's awesome!

My son will get his first taste of Maple Leaf Hockey tonight, however porous the defense look

Have fun!  I was going to say I haven't been to a game in a long time - then remembered I went to the Winter Classic! 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm going to go out on a limb here (a very thin and fragile limb about to break from very high up) and say that the Leafs win this in regulation. They have been known to up their game every 20 games or so.

Crazy things can happen.  They randomly pumped Chicago that one game.

 

[Redleaf]

Anyone want a pair of tickets for tonight?

willing to sell them at face value. $70 each.. section 307 row 15.

PM me.

Face value - you're a good man.  If I wasn't 700 kms away...

Only do that here for those of you who tolerate me.

I'm the beneficiary. Thanks again Corn Flake. That's awesome!

My son will get his first taste of Maple Leaf Hockey tonight, however porous the defense look

Have fun!  I was going to say I haven't been to a game in a long time - then remembered I went to the Winter Classic! 

Thanks. It'll be fun win or lose. The boy's a 'budding' Leaf fan. He'll be happy just to be there and see them live.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I know that was sarcastic.... but I'm going to go with it anyways:

You mean control the play in the offensive zone for multiple shifts at a time, then after tiring the opposition out, when they do get the puck, back check so they need to dump the puck into the offensive zone and change before they can even get a shot on net? 

Yeah, I'm sure EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE wants to utilize that strategy.  It's kinda hard, unless you have the personnel to do so- no matter who the coach is.

* Note:  In no way am I saying that Carlyle is doing a good job with the roster he has.  But, team defence is part strategy and part execution.  His strategy seems to be flawed, but really, I don't think we know that for sure because this team cannot execute the game plan for a full 60 minutes very often.

The original comment wasn't suggesting the Leafs can be as good as the Blues are right now, but that a structured system could have them in much better position than they are.  It's still smart to do these things properly even if you don't have the same overall talent of the top teams.

And you don't think RC doesn't want his players playing a structured system?  Bollocks.  If anything, they are too structured in their own end and because of that, the players sit back and let the other team skate around the outside with the puck, cycle it until, inevitably, there is a defensive breakdown or lots of traffic in front of the net which grossly increases the chance of a goal or juicy rebound.

As I've said in the past, the team is not assertive enough in their own end.  They don't win enough puck battles because RC doesn't want them to be too aggressive which can get them caught on the wrong side of the puck if they lose it.  RC would rather contain them to the outside.  I agree that they shouldn't be too aggressive to the point they can lose their positioning- but they can certainly be more assertive when trying to win the puck battle from a sound defensive position.  Their lack of assertiveness leads to us spending too much time in our own zone. 

Watch St. Louis and LA.  Their defensive scheme in their own end isn't much different- they tend to keep their wingers a little closer to the opposition defencemen and ask less from them in terms of "help defence"- probably because they trust their defencemen to not screw up down low.  But they hound you for the puck without getting caught out of position.  Once they get it, they don't make as many silly mistakes getting out of their zone.

 

[Corn Flake]

Thanks. It'll be fun win or lose. The boy's a 'budding' Leaf fan. He'll be happy just to be there and see them live.

Wait 'till he sees all the snacks, junk and souvenirs he can get there. He won't want to leave!

 

[Corn Flake]

I'm going to go out on a limb here (a very thin and fragile limb about to break from very high up) and say that the Leafs win this in regulation. They have been known to up their game every 20 games or so.

Crazy things can happen.  They randomly pumped Chicago that one game.

They sure do. Plus, they know how good the Blues are and they will have to play their absolute best.  Bernier returning is going to be a boost as well and should inject some badly needed confidence. 

 

[ZBBM]

Very true.  My point is that it's hard to argue against the idea that the coaching needs to change and the defensive needs a major upgrade.

Well, I think the level of the talent upgrade needed on the defensive side of things could very well be mitigated fairly substantially by the change in coaching. Some upgrades are definitely needed, yes, it's just what upgrades (outside of a couple obvious ones) and how extensive they are is sort of hard to put a finger on right now.

This is pretty much the core of where (as I see it) I disagree with you and Potvin.  Cashiering RC is necessary, but not sufficient.  Upgrading the defensive skill of our D corps -- which is too skewed towards offensive defensemen -- means making a smart trade for either Phaneuf or Gardiner because they are the two with most trade value.  (I assume Franson is gone and that Rielly will stay.)  As I've said before, I wish it were Phaneuf going, but that's highly unlikely so it leaves only one choice, regrettably.

But the problem I have with that, is that the type of skill provided by guys like Gardiner isn't really teachable whereas any player can be taught defense (aka can't really 'teach' Gardiner's skating for example).

I don't want to get into an extended argument on this point but I disagree.  Some players are naturally better at defending than others, that is, they have skills that can't be taught that allow them to be better defenders than others.  I'm thinking of, say, Lidstrom's ability to (seemingly) be in the right position most of the time, and use his stick to prevent passes, and so on.