Bozak's Future

[Kin]

True.  But I think a star player becomes a little more marketable in a bigger market.  Corey Perry for example.  Does anyone know if he has a deal or two?  I'm sure he does, but I don't think they would be national.  The last two that I can think of that I saw were Rick Nash and Mike Cammalleri.  I guess I have also seen Tavares, Duchene and Talbot (yeah one of these things is not like the others), but those are the only ones that stick out in recent memory.  So when the salaries are the same for these big name players from different teams, then coming to a market like Toronto may actually have some benefits as far as endorsements go.  In the case of Bozak, no.

I honestly think it has more to do with the player than it does the location. I haven't seen Perry on a bunch of ads, no, but the same is more or less true with Kessel outside of the big tuna money because neither guy strikes me as all that interesting/charismatic. On the flip side someone like PK Subban, who seems significantly less monotone, I have seen on TV. Jarome Iginla, who I've probably seen in the most ads of any hockey player besides Crosby or Ovechkin, can make that money in Calgary, he could probably do it anywhere.

Not to mention that we have no idea what various players may have been offered and turned down(I often wonder when I see that Tavares/Duchene/Talbot commercial how many players passed before they got to those three). Some guys just aren't comfortable as pitchmen.

Regardless, I still think the money is inconsequential.

 

[ZBBM]

Bozak will re-sign for no more than $3.5 I predict, just because things are starting to turn around.  And -- people often forget this -- a guy of his stature can make vastly more in endorsements, public appearances, etc. as a Leaf than he would anywhere else.  His effective salary in TO will be much higher than anyplace else.  Call it the Adulation Multiplier.

People always bring this up, but there's really no truth to it. Who was the last Leaf that received endorsements that one could reasonably believe came anywhere near those numbers? And, are they the type of player that wouldn't have received those endorsement playing elsewhere? I honestly can't think of any.

I didn't say he would make more than his salary in endorsements.  I said he would make vastly more in endorsements as a Leaf than he would anywhere else.  Which, I think, is undeniably true.  Tyler Bozak in any other market would be close to invisible as far as marketers are concerned.  Here?  He could endorse tuna.

 

[ZBBM]

Also the We love mats McDonalds commercial.  And the one where he bodychecks the kid in to the window.  Forgot who that was for.  Anyways, I do think Mats playing in T.O. helped get some of those.  Not sure he would have gotten those if he was in Quebec or Colorado.

That was Nike. And, yeah, he probably wouldn't have gotten all of them, but a good chunk of them, yes. As well as others that weren't available to him here. But, at the same time, Sundin is arguably the best Leaf ever, whereas Bozak - the impetus of this discussion - will largely be forgotten 10 years from now.

And you've just supported the very point I'm making now.

 

[Kin]

I didn't say he would make more than his salary in endorsements.  I said he would make vastly more in endorsements as a Leaf than he would anywhere else.  Which, I think, is undeniably true.  Tyler Bozak in any other market would be close to invisible as far as marketers are concerned.  Here?  He could endorse tuna.

Well, leaving aside that people have denied it I suppose it then depends on what you consider "vast" sums of money. If he makes 20,000 bucks a year in Toronto in endorsements compared to nothing somewhere else is that vast? 50,000? Because, honestly, I think that's the kind of money we're talking about if that even.

You're not in Toronto, right? Well, as someone who is I can tell you that individual members of the Leafs don't have all that much of a media presence in the city. There aren't local ads with Nik Kulemin pitching for a Subaru dealership or something along those lines. Phaneuf has been in Red Bull ads and Kessel has the tuna thing(but even that, in my experience anyway, is largely limited to a couple of billboards). I've never, in my life, seen a marginal Leafs player in a TV ad or doing much of anything that would earn them significant sums of money outside of playing hockey.

 

[dappleganger]

Making a little extra coin from playing in a high profile market like Toronto isn't going to make or break a decision on signing here.

Take Getzlaf for example. He is a big name and could possibly cash in with a few endorsements (much more than Bozak could). Any endorsement deals aren't going to change his mind when it comes to signing with Toronto. It'd be a nice perk of signing here but wouldn't factor into a decision to sign with the Leafs.

Frankly, I'd suggest playing in the most hockey crazed market would be more of an appeal to players and than any financial windfall it would bring.

 

[bustaheims]

Well, leaving aside that people have denied it I suppose it then depends on what you consider "vast" sums of money. If he makes 20,000 bucks a year in Toronto in endorsements compared to nothing somewhere else is that vast? 50,000? Because, honestly, I think that's the kind of money we're talking about if that even.

You're not in Toronto, right? Well, as someone who is I can tell you that individual members of the Leafs don't have all that much of a media presence in the city. There aren't local ads with Nik Kulemin pitching for a Subaru dealership or something along those lines. Phaneuf has been in Red Bull ads and Kessel has the tuna thing(but even that, in my experience anyway, is largely limited to a couple of billboards). I've never, in my life, seen a marginal Leafs player in a TV ad or doing much of anything that would earn them significant sums of money outside of playing hockey.

That's just it - the opportunities people think these players get don't really happen. It's only the high profile guys that get endorsement opportunities. And, even were Bozak to get some of these chances, as someone who's worked in the ad industry in Toronto, I have a pretty good idea of what kind of money someone of his stature would receive - and, it's really not all that much, unless he's doing new ads and making new appearances pretty much every week.

 

[bustaheims]

And you've just supported the very point I'm making now.

Except for, you know, the fact that it means that practically no advertisers are going to consider him.

 

[rdowdall]

Well, leaving aside that people have denied it I suppose it then depends on what you consider "vast" sums of money. If he makes 20,000 bucks a year in Toronto in endorsements compared to nothing somewhere else is that vast? 50,000? Because, honestly, I think that's the kind of money we're talking about if that even.

You're not in Toronto, right? Well, as someone who is I can tell you that individual members of the Leafs don't have all that much of a media presence in the city. There aren't local ads with Nik Kulemin pitching for a Subaru dealership or something along those lines. Phaneuf has been in Red Bull ads and Kessel has the tuna thing(but even that, in my experience anyway, is largely limited to a couple of billboards). I've never, in my life, seen a marginal Leafs player in a TV ad or doing much of anything that would earn them significant sums of money outside of playing hockey.

That's just it - the opportunities people think these players get don't really happen. It's only the high profile guys that get endorsement opportunities. And, even were Bozak to get some of these chances, as someone who's worked in the ad industry in Toronto, I have a pretty good idea of what kind of money someone of his stature would receive - and, it's really not all that much, unless he's doing new ads and making new appearances pretty much every week.

Can we start calling him "Tyler Bozak das Pimp"?

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Well, leaving aside that people have denied it I suppose it then depends on what you consider "vast" sums of money. If he makes 20,000 bucks a year in Toronto in endorsements compared to nothing somewhere else is that vast? 50,000? Because, honestly, I think that's the kind of money we're talking about if that even.

You're not in Toronto, right? Well, as someone who is I can tell you that individual members of the Leafs don't have all that much of a media presence in the city. There aren't local ads with Nik Kulemin pitching for a Subaru dealership or something along those lines. Phaneuf has been in Red Bull ads and Kessel has the tuna thing(but even that, in my experience anyway, is largely limited to a couple of billboards). I've never, in my life, seen a marginal Leafs player in a TV ad or doing much of anything that would earn them significant sums of money outside of playing hockey.

That's just it - the opportunities people think these players get don't really happen. It's only the high profile guys that get endorsement opportunities. And, even were Bozak to get some of these chances, as someone who's worked in the ad industry in Toronto, I have a pretty good idea of what kind of money someone of his stature would receive - and, it's really not all that much, unless he's doing new ads and making new appearances pretty much every week.

I agree.  Unless you're doing national spots/campaigns you're probably not making very much.

 

[Jay-Mar]

I'm in the US so haven't seen them, but didn't Sundin have some Chunky Soup commercials padding his pockets??

He did, but, Sundin's the type of player that would have received a bunch of endorsements as long as we wasn't playing in a city where hockey was practically irrelevant.

Also he had the McDonalds commercial with Gretzky.  And then there was that goalie that he exposed the WEAK WEAK glove hand on....

Mats Nike commercials were great lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u88WdovasU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySjUgBSA80g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25BJaZJ177Q

and this is my favorite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1u-XtTql1c

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Been watching Bozak very closely since first raising this question, he flatters to deceive a lot.

I've come to the conclusion I would not pay him one red cent over 3.5 million per year.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

@mirtle

My Bozak comparable would be someone like Kyle Turris (with intangibles). He makes $3.5-million. Thoughts?

Pretty decent comparison, although I suspect Turris might have a higher offensive ceiling, with Bozak being a little stronger on faceoffs and the PK

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I think that's a pretty poor comparison, as someone else pointed out (and of course Mirtle didn't acknowledge):

‏@So_Truculent

@mirtle Positive possession 22 year old RFA with a future vs. 26 year old drag on his line UFA post-prime. It's a pretty bad comparable.

@So_Truculent

@mirtle Turris contract was paying for future growth. Contract's right over his prime. Bozak is 27 next year. Would not pay 3.5.

Stephen Burtch linked to some comparables: link

 

[cw]

Been watching Bozak very closely since first raising this question, he flatters to deceive a lot.

I've come to the conclusion I would not pay him one red cent over 3.5 million per year.

I'm not his biggest fan. Don't mind him but he has limitations.

UFA centers:
link

As center, he'll get more than wingers as that's been the case for some time in part due to the short supply of decent top 6 centers.

So he'll probably get very roughly $3.5 or so. The big thing for me is the term. I don't see him as the #1 center on a Cup winning team. If they give him a five year deal, it would make him tough to move and less cap effective if he's moved to the third line.

It's not easy for Nonis as with Getzlaf signed, there just aren't a lot of good top 6 centers. That drives his UFA price up.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I wonder if it'll be a case of addition by subtraction if we let him leave.

An-Other from within our system replaces his spot on the roster, we get a decent trade deadline return for him and use the $3.5 million cap space he could demand as UFA to go after a marquee player.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Been watching Bozak very closely since first raising this question, he flatters to deceive a lot.

I've come to the conclusion I would not pay him one red cent over 3.5 million per year.

I'm not his biggest fan. Don't mind him but he has limitations.

UFA centers:
link

As center, he'll get more than wingers as that's been the case for some time in part due to the short supply of decent top 6 centers.

So he'll probably get very roughly $3.5 or so. The big thing for me is the term. I don't see him as the #1 center on a Cup winning team. If they give him a five year deal, it would make him tough to move and less cap effective if he's moved to the third line.

It's not easy for Nonis as with Getzlaf signed, there just aren't a lot of good top 6 centers. That drives his UFA price up.

I'm comfortable saying there is ZERO chance he is a #1 C on a cup winning team, and to be honest I can't see any team signing him to be a #1 C on their team.  Despite playing the role of #1 C, even with 2 guys who put up around a PPG last season, he produces like a 3rd liner.

I don't see a GM thinking he's suddenly going to break out at 27, past an age when the average player hits their prime.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Talk about misleading stats though Potvin, the list you posted has Stempniak comparing somewhat favorably with Backes and Colby fricking Armstrong not far behind, which seems crazy to me.

It tells you less than nothing about what these players really mean to their respective teams.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Talk about misleading stats though Potvin, the list you posted has Stempniak comparing somewhat favorably with Backes and Colby fricking Armstrong not far behind, which seems crazy to me.

It tells you less than nothing about what these players really mean to their respective teams.

It's comparing similar production of players aged 22-27 through their first 4 seasons.  It's not saying look at these stats blindly, but I don't see how it doesn't make more sense than comparing him to a guy like Turris.  It's trying to put his career so far in perspective - look at that list, and then use other factors to determine where he fits.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Talk about misleading stats though Potvin, the list you posted has Stempniak comparing somewhat favorably with Backes and Colby fricking Armstrong not far behind, which seems crazy to me.

It tells you less than nothing about what these players really mean to their respective teams.

It's comparing similar production of players aged 22-27 through their first 4 seasons.  It's not saying look at these stats blindly, but I don't see how it doesn't make more sense than comparing him to a guy like Turris.  It's trying to put his career so far in perspective - look at that list, and then use other factors to determine where he fits.

You're right, it does just show you how stats can be misleading though when looked at in a vacum

I mean Armstrong, Stempniak and Backes had almost identical starts and then one became a scrub, one became a marginal scorer and the other a top centre ice man.

Which does Bozak become?

I think a cup winner could win it all with Backes spearheading things, I highly doubt the same is true of Bozak.

He's likely a very good third liner on a deep team.

 

[Leafaholic99]

Bozak reminds me of Yannick Perrault, I wouldn't pay him more than 3 million, preferbly 2.5 million at most.