Captain Phaneuf

[TML fan]

Phaneuf isn't that slow. He's just not a very good skater. He's good in a straight line, but throw a couple turns in there and you don't know what's happening.

 

[nutman]

Phaneuf isn't that slow. He's just not a very good skater. He's good in a straight line, but throw a couple turns in there and you don't know what's happening.

I think for some reason he looks akward out there.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Phaneuf has been excellent. I really fail to understand the criticism.

Phaneuf has been excellent offensively over the last 6 games. His defence is p*ss poor.

I disagree whole-heartedly.

We're all allowed to have our own opinions.

Being a tender, Phaneuf is the kind of guy I hated playing behind. It's great when he's scoring and the puck is in the other end....but give him the puck in his own end and he makes at least 2 or 3 poor decisions a game. A lot of them end up in the net. He reminds me a lot of Bryan McCabe in that regard.

And that wasnt a bad player, I'll take two more just like him any day.

That would be sweet. Our idiotic plays in our own zone would go from 3 or 4 to 10 or 12...That would be awesome.

 

[nutman]

Phaneuf has been excellent. I really fail to understand the criticism.

Phaneuf has been excellent offensively over the last 6 games. His defence is p*ss poor.

I disagree whole-heartedly.

We're all allowed to have our own opinions.

Being a tender, Phaneuf is the kind of guy I hated playing behind. It's great when he's scoring and the puck is in the other end....but give him the puck in his own end and he makes at least 2 or 3 poor decisions a game. A lot of them end up in the net. He reminds me a lot of Bryan McCabe in that regard.

And that wasnt a bad player, I'll take two more just like him any day.

That would be sweet. Our idiotic plays in our own zone would go from 3 or 4 to 10 or 12...That would be awesome.

Mccabe.... we are talking about him are we not. he was a high end dman that any team would have loved. and you can shoot him down, some fan. he had way more up side than down, and was our best for years.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Phaneuf has been excellent. I really fail to understand the criticism.

Phaneuf has been excellent offensively over the last 6 games. His defence is p*ss poor.

I disagree whole-heartedly.

We're all allowed to have our own opinions.

Being a tender, Phaneuf is the kind of guy I hated playing behind. It's great when he's scoring and the puck is in the other end....but give him the puck in his own end and he makes at least 2 or 3 poor decisions a game. A lot of them end up in the net. He reminds me a lot of Bryan McCabe in that regard.

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

I agree with you Potvin, I can't understand the Phaneuf bashing. I mean, I understood it when he was playing bad, but not anymore. He just seems to always be a polarizing figure, even with people around my home here, from die hard Leafers. Alot of them just can't get by his salary, which doesn't really affect any of us fans.

I get that he's overpaid, like a rather large part of the league, but his defense (which was always a point of contention for him) has been miles better. I find his shot is even much, much better this season so far.

 

[Kin]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

If he were playing defense in a vacuum, sure. With four other guys on the ice and improved goaltending, no. Erik Karlsson, of the team with the best GAA in the league, is also not a very good defensive defenseman.

 

[Rebel_1812]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

I agree with you Potvin, I can't understand the Phaneuf bashing. I mean, I understood it when he was playing bad, but not anymore. He just seems to always be a polarizing figure, even with people around my home here, from die hard Leafers. Alot of them just can't get by his salary, which doesn't really affect any of us fans.

I get that he's overpaid, like a rather large part of the league, but his defense (which was always a point of contention for him) has been miles better. I find his shot is even much, much better this season so far.

I agree.  It was the same thing with McCabe.  He could be playing 30 minutes a night, yet people would still complain about him.  They must think Quinn was crazy putting out his worst dman for half the game.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

If he were playing defense in a vacuum, sure. With four other guys on the ice and improved goaltending, no. Erik Karlsson, of the team with the best GAA in the league, is also not a very good defensive defenseman.

Exactly. I don't have to go back to 2010 to find a Phaneuf screw up. Watch the highlights from the loss against Tampa Bay. He was at fault, or at the least contributed to 3 of the 4 goals against.

Like McCabe, he is very valuable when the team is on the Powerplay or in the offensive zone. When you watch him in his own zone, far too often he wanders off, panics with the puck, or makes some other boneheaded play.
McCabe did the same thing. Often.

 

[Kin]

I agree.  It was the same thing with McCabe.  He could be playing 30 minutes a night, yet people would still complain about him.  They must think Quinn was crazy putting out his worst dman for half the game.

No, other people just don't set the bar quite as low as that. Like it or not if the Maple Leafs are ever going to be a championship hockey club they're going to have to have guys on the team who are excellent, perhaps the best in the league, at their position. Just being the best on the team wins you nothing. When people criticize Phaneuf it's because they know that in order to be the #1 defenseman on a contending team there's a certain standard that can't be met simply by virtue of being more deserving of ice time than Mike Kostka.

 

[rdowdall]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

If he were playing defense in a vacuum, sure. With four other guys on the ice and improved goaltending, no. Erik Karlsson, of the team with the best GAA in the league, is also not a very good defensive defenseman.

Exactly. I don't have to go back to 2010 to find a Phaneuf screw up. Watch the highlights from the loss against Tampa Bay. He was at fault, or at the least contributed to 3 of the 4 goals against.

Like McCabe, he is very valuable when the team is on the Powerplay or in the offensive zone. When you watch him in his own zone, far too often he wanders off, panics with the puck, or makes some other boneheaded play.
McCabe did the same thing. Often.

But then is it a case of that was a bad game where he got exposed, or is he really that bad?  I've seen Pronger have some pretty bad games as well, where he just looks lost.  He was a pretty good defencman.  I'm not saying that Phanuef should win the Norris, but it is funny that after a bad game people jump all over him, and then after a good game, people want to erect a statue for him.

He is what he is, a pretty good #2 or #3 defencemen.  Just so happens on the Leafs, he gets #1 minutes.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

If he were playing defense in a vacuum, sure. With four other guys on the ice and improved goaltending, no. Erik Karlsson, of the team with the best GAA in the league, is also not a very good defensive defenseman.

Exactly. I don't have to go back to 2010 to find a Phaneuf screw up. Watch the highlights from the loss against Tampa Bay. He was at fault, or at the least contributed to 3 of the 4 goals against.

Like McCabe, he is very valuable when the team is on the Powerplay or in the offensive zone. When you watch him in his own zone, far too often he wanders off, panics with the puck, or makes some other boneheaded play.
McCabe did the same thing. Often.

He is what he is, a pretty good #2 or #3 defencemen.  Just so happens on the Leafs, he gets #1 minutes.

But then it goes back to what Nik said. He's paid like a #1 dman, we as fans expect him to be a #1 dman...not on the team, a number 1 dman in the league.

If you're going to be the captain, making all kinds of big bucks, you need to be able to play that 27/28 minutes a night and not have really off nights. I can forgive the odd one, but it's a constant struggle with him in his own end.

If I had the time, I'd sit on the board and make a note of every poor decision he made during a game, but as it is, I have a hard time watching a full game, never mind typing away while it's going on.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

22. Two maligned blue-liners, Jay Bouwmeester and Dion Phaneuf, are taking on huge roles for their teams. Phaneuf's been on the ice for offensive-zone faceoffs just 36 per cent of the time, the lowest among defencemen who've played at least 10 games. Bouwmeester is at 41 per cent, which is 13th-lowest. Only Zdeno Chara and Johnny Boychuk face tougher competition than Phaneuf. Bouwmeester is 11th in that category (with partner Mark Giordano ninth).

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/02/30-thoughts-nhl-realignment-still-needs-work.html

 

[Kin]

I'm not saying that Phanuef should win the Norris, but it is funny that after a bad game people jump all over him, and then after a good game, people want to erect a statue for him.

You could say that about any player though. When anyone has a good game the people who tend to be fans of theirs will say how great he is and when a player has a poor one their detractors tend to jump on it. If it were the same people, sure, but I don't think that's the case here.

 

[rdowdall]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

If he were playing defense in a vacuum, sure. With four other guys on the ice and improved goaltending, no. Erik Karlsson, of the team with the best GAA in the league, is also not a very good defensive defenseman.

Exactly. I don't have to go back to 2010 to find a Phaneuf screw up. Watch the highlights from the loss against Tampa Bay. He was at fault, or at the least contributed to 3 of the 4 goals against.

Like McCabe, he is very valuable when the team is on the Powerplay or in the offensive zone. When you watch him in his own zone, far too often he wanders off, panics with the puck, or makes some other boneheaded play.
McCabe did the same thing. Often.

He is what he is, a pretty good #2 or #3 defencemen.  Just so happens on the Leafs, he gets #1 minutes.

But then it goes back to what Nik said. He's paid like a #1 dman, we as fans expect him to be a #1 dman...not on the team, a number 1 dman in the league.

If you're going to be the captain, making all kinds of big bucks, you need to be able to play that 27/28 minutes a night and not have really off nights. I can forgive the odd one, but it's a constant struggle with him in his own end.

If I had the time, I'd sit on the board and make a note of every poor decision he made during a game, but as it is, I have a hard time watching a full game, never mind typing away while it's going on.

What he is paid is not Dion Phanuef's fault.  His agent and the GM that gave him the contract are the ones that resulted in that.  I have not heard Dion spout off about how he needs to get "his" minutes.  Nor has he thrown anybody under the bus and said "I'm the #1 d-man on this team".  If Shea Weber magically showed up at the door, I don't think Dion would turn him away by saying "Sorry, we have a #1 d-man here, and it's me.  So hit the road Jack."  The people who made the decisions to put Dion in the position he is in are the ones that should be faulted for Dion playing the amount he is playing, not Dion Phanuef himself.

 

[rdowdall]

I'm not saying that Phanuef should win the Norris, but it is funny that after a bad game people jump all over him, and then after a good game, people want to erect a statue for him.

You could say that about any player though. When anyone has a good game the people who tend to be fans of theirs will say how great he is and when a player has a poor one their detractors tend to jump on it. If it were the same people, sure, but I don't think that's the case here.

Okay, then it's funny in the general case. 

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

If he were playing defense in a vacuum, sure. With four other guys on the ice and improved goaltending, no. Erik Karlsson, of the team with the best GAA in the league, is also not a very good defensive defenseman.

Exactly. I don't have to go back to 2010 to find a Phaneuf screw up. Watch the highlights from the loss against Tampa Bay. He was at fault, or at the least contributed to 3 of the 4 goals against.

Like McCabe, he is very valuable when the team is on the Powerplay or in the offensive zone. When you watch him in his own zone, far too often he wanders off, panics with the puck, or makes some other boneheaded play.
McCabe did the same thing. Often.

He is what he is, a pretty good #2 or #3 defencemen.  Just so happens on the Leafs, he gets #1 minutes.

But then it goes back to what Nik said. He's paid like a #1 dman, we as fans expect him to be a #1 dman...not on the team, a number 1 dman in the league.

If you're going to be the captain, making all kinds of big bucks, you need to be able to play that 27/28 minutes a night and not have really off nights. I can forgive the odd one, but it's a constant struggle with him in his own end.

If I had the time, I'd sit on the board and make a note of every poor decision he made during a game, but as it is, I have a hard time watching a full game, never mind typing away while it's going on.

What he is paid is not Dion Phanuef's fault.  His agent and the GM that gave him the contract are the ones that resulted in that.  I have not heard Dion spout off about how he needs to get "his" minutes.  Nor has he thrown anybody under the bus and said "I'm the #1 d-man on this team".  If Shea Weber magically showed up at the door, I don't think Dion would turn him away by saying "Sorry, we have a #1 d-man here, and it's me.  So hit the road Jack."  The people who made the decisions to put Dion in the position he is in are the ones that should be faulted for Dion playing the amount he is playing, not Dion Phanuef himself.

And I hold nothing personally against Dion as a player. I haven't said that he 'thinks' he's a "#1 dman". I complain because the Leafs organization refuses to see his obvious shortcomings...or at the least, compensate it by getting a true stay at home defense...Holzer is that, but he's not a #2 guy on any team in this league.

I also take issue with people saying "he's playing 30 minutes a game, how can anyone say he's bad"....he plays 30 minutes because noone else is available to play that many minutes. People say that the defense is deep...I'm not so sure..It's much like the rest of the team a couple years ago, where we had Mats Sundin, and a boatload of 2nd and 3rd liners. Well, We have Dion Phaneuf(a number 2 guy with a solid defensive guy beside him) and then we have a bunch of #4's, 5's and 6's....As much as people say that D isn't a hole right now, a there's really only 1 guy between #1 and #3.(We can point to Rielly or Gardiner being that #1 guy, but we still need a solid stay at home guy to compensate for their talents).



note; I hold nothing against players personally. They're far better than you or I could hope to be. I have issues with them being in the line up, or in the case of Dion, being in the roles they're assigned. That doesn't reflect poorly on them other than them not being good enough to do said role. Much the way Bozak is asked to do much more than he's capable of doing.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

Think about how much he plays per night for the Leafs, and how the Leafs are 8th best in the NHL in goals against per game.  If he were anywhere near as bad defensively as you are saying he is, wouldn't our goals against be much worse than it is?

If he were playing defense in a vacuum, sure. With four other guys on the ice and improved goaltending, no. Erik Karlsson, of the team with the best GAA in the league, is also not a very good defensive defenseman.

Exactly. I don't have to go back to 2010 to find a Phaneuf screw up. Watch the highlights from the loss against Tampa Bay. He was at fault, or at the least contributed to 3 of the 4 goals against.

Like McCabe, he is very valuable when the team is on the Powerplay or in the offensive zone. When you watch him in his own zone, far too often he wanders off, panics with the puck, or makes some other boneheaded play.
McCabe did the same thing. Often.

He is what he is, a pretty good #2 or #3 defencemen.  Just so happens on the Leafs, he gets #1 minutes.

But then it goes back to what Nik said. He's paid like a #1 dman, we as fans expect him to be a #1 dman...not on the team, a number 1 dman in the league.

If you're going to be the captain, making all kinds of big bucks, you need to be able to play that 27/28 minutes a night and not have really off nights. I can forgive the odd one, but it's a constant struggle with him in his own end.

If I had the time, I'd sit on the board and make a note of every poor decision he made during a game, but as it is, I have a hard time watching a full game, never mind typing away while it's going on.

What he is paid is not Dion Phanuef's fault.  His agent and the GM that gave him the contract are the ones that resulted in that.  I have not heard Dion spout off about how he needs to get "his" minutes.  Nor has he thrown anybody under the bus and said "I'm the #1 d-man on this team".  If Shea Weber magically showed up at the door, I don't think Dion would turn him away by saying "Sorry, we have a #1 d-man here, and it's me.  So hit the road Jack."  The people who made the decisions to put Dion in the position he is in are the ones that should be faulted for Dion playing the amount he is playing, not Dion Phanuef himself.

And I hold nothing personally against Dion as a player. I haven't said that he 'thinks' he's a "#1 dman". I complain because the Leafs organization refuses to see his obvious shortcomings...or at the least, compensate it by getting a true stay at home defense...Holzer is that, but he's not a #2 guy on any team in this league.

I also take issue with people saying "he's playing 30 minutes a game, how can anyone say he's bad"....he plays 30 minutes because noone else is available to play that many minutes. People say that the defense is deep...I'm not so sure..It's much like the rest of the team a couple years ago, where we had Mats Sundin, and a boatload of 2nd and 3rd liners. Well, We have Dion Phaneuf(a number 2 guy with a solid defensive guy beside him) and then we have a bunch of #4's, 5's and 6's....As much as people say that D isn't a hole right now, a there's really only 1 guy between #1 and #3.(We can point to Rielly or Gardiner being that #1 guy, but we still need a solid stay at home guy to compensate for their talents).



note; I hold nothing against players personally. They're far better than you or I could hope to be. I have issues with them being in the line up, or in the case of Dion, being in the roles they're assigned. That doesn't reflect poorly on them other than them not being good enough to do said role. Much the way Bozak is asked to do much more than he's capable of doing.

Despite some of the boneheaded plays the defence makes from time to time, this is actually one of the best defensive systems I have seen the Leafs use in a very long time.  When the d-men play agressive, in your face hockey, the team wins, and it is really nice to see opposing players getting flattened in the Leafs defensive zone for a change.  Leafs GA is way down from years past, the goalies are getting a clear view of most shots, and I notice a lot less rebounds than in years past. 

Remember how many games Raycrap played when he broke the team record for most wins in a season by a Leaf goalie?  Just because he played a lot of games that season, and got a lot of wins did not mean he was a great goalie.  Besides, most of those wins were due to the Leafs offense and little to do with Raycraps stellar play while most of the Leafs losses that season were due to defensive and goalie miscues.  Just because Phaneuf is playing almost half of each game, and just because he is wearing the C, does not mean he is the best Leafs d-man.  When he simplifies his game, and doesn`t do more than what he should, he plays pretty good.  It`s when he tries to do too much, that he gets caught out of position, covers the wrong player, takes a bad penalty or tries to play with a broken stick (Leafs were extremely lucky Phaneuf did not get a penalty for that).

ostka, Fraser and Holzer are just as physical as Dion and are more reliable than Dion and Gunnerson has been playing much better lately.  The bottom 2 pairing would actually be Franson and Dion, based on what I have seen thus far. 

 

[Boston Leaf]

I got no issue with Dion myself (ok paid a bit too much) But I would shutter to think who would replace his top 2 pairing minutes vs the other players best night after night.. 

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I got no issue with Dion myself (ok paid a bit too much) But I would shutter to think who would replace his top 2 pairing minutes vs the other players best night after night..

And that lends to what I said. Dion plays top 2 minutes, because quite frankly, he's the best option they have right now. My issue is that in itself.