Contracts for the Big-3

[Bates]

As I have written before That's just how it happens on my tablet??? Does it show up weird? I guess I could just move curser to bottom??

I don't suppose it could also be that the Leafs are reasonable and that's why they aren't offering 5??? Someone's hand is going to be slightly forced into signing a contract between these two parties,
Or one would already be signed. Who has the ability to make their number closer holds the leverage. The rest of your post is fluff that is obvious and no one is aguing. No one can force another to sign a contract but someone will win the details of that contract battle. 

That saddens me??  Oh well I guess the satisfaction of your spin will have to be my reward.

See, I still don't think you've been able to actually get what I've been saying. Despite the fact that the word seems to get you frothing at the mouth, I don't think of "leverage" as an absolute or as a zero-sum game. Dubas, representing the team, has his. Nylander has his. One doesn't detract from the other and whatever number Nylander signs at isn't a representation of either side having tangibly more. Both parties of capable of acting irrationally, both parties may take deals that aren't as advantageous as they might have gotten in another capacity or under different circumstances.

This is not a matter of absolutes and quantifiable concepts. This is not an adversarial process where one side wins and the other loses. Nylander has already "won" by virtue of being good enough at hockey to make a lot of money at it. All that's being decided is the extent to which he will make a lot of money that the Leafs would prefer not to give him.

Because you still haven't addressed a basic truth. If the Leafs have all of the negotiating power and Nylander none, why are they offering 6? Why not 5? Or 4? Are they bad at math? Just love Nylander's dreamy blue eyes?

No. It's because he's a very good hockey player who they want in the line-up and they're willing to pay a lot of money for it to happen because they know that players like Nylander are hard to find. That is the manifestation of his negotiating power. Whether it results in a 6 or 7 or 8 million dollar deal is fundamentally immaterial to this very simple concept that every one else has managed to grasp.

Bates why are you the only guy who replies to messages with the quotes on the bottom?  It's difficult to follow when you post.

It's extremely difficult to follow if you come into a thread a few hours later and try to read through the thread in order of quoted messages and replies.  When everyone else's messages appear on the bottom after a quoted message, and yours appear at the top before a quoted message, it becomes difficult to read.

Is this one normal? Wonder why mine does that?

 

[Fanatic]

Is this better?

Yes.

 

[herman]

Is this better?

Seriously, this whole time.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

So, has he signed yet?  ;D

Is this better?

Seriously, this whole time.

 

[Arn]

And everyone will think he's a bit of a tool.

I mean, I won't for the record. If he doesn't like a 6 or 7 year final offer, or even a 3 or 4 year one, why should he take it?

Oh me either, I meant more the generic man on the street media hype led everyone
Not actually EVERYone

 

[Highlander]

can he take a rest of the season offer?

 

[IJustLurkHere]

It's November 1st!

We have 30 days and this will all get resolved!!!

a) Nylander signs
b) Nylander is traded
c) Nylander sits out the entire season

Clarification is coming soon!!!

Which is stupid because;

a)I don't think the Leafs are going to come up much more.  I don't think they will suddenly cave to Nylander's demands.

b)A trade will most likely hinge on the other team being able to sign Nylander, I don't think another team will give Nylander what he wants.

c) This is a really stupid choice on Nylander's part if it comes to this.  I can't remember anyone missing an entire season with a contract dispute.

In the event of (c), the Leafs will have squandered one of their 4 greatest assets in a year where there is an excellent opportunity for a cup due to the low salaries of Matthews and Marner.

I wonder what the blowback will be if we trade Nylander and he immediately signs for $7.

 

[Guilt Trip]

It's November 1st!

We have 30 days and this will all get resolved!!!

a) Nylander signs
b) Nylander is traded
c) Nylander sits out the entire season

Clarification is coming soon!!!

Which is stupid because;

a)I don't think the Leafs are going to come up much more.  I don't think they will suddenly cave to Nylander's demands.

b)A trade will most likely hinge on the other team being able to sign Nylander, I don't think another team will give Nylander what he wants.

c) This is a really stupid choice on Nylander's part if it comes to this.  I can't remember anyone missing an entire season with a contract dispute.

In the event of (c), the Leafs will have squandered one of their 4 greatest assets in a year where there is an excellent opportunity for a cup due to the low salaries of Matthews and Marner.

I wonder what the blowback will be if we trade Nylander and he immediately signs for $7.

I think of push came to shove they'd sign him for 7. If he signs for 7 somewhere else it tells me he really didn't want to remain a Leaf.... So no blowback

 

[Kin]

I wonder what the blowback will be if we trade Nylander and he immediately signs for $7.

My guess is that it would be considerable. It would either mean that Nylander was amenable to a long term deal at 7 here and Dubas just couldn't get it done or that the relationship deteriorated to the point that Nylander wanted out in which case that reflects badly on the team as well.

 

[sickbeast]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?  I'm going to say the Leafs.  And it surprises me saying that.  I was thinking Dubas has all the power but Nylander really does hold some clout.

I would say that if Nylander was going to sign for a cheap or reasonable amount, he would have done so already.  There is no way he is going to sit out this long and then accept the cheap contract that he passed up on to begin with.  That would make absolutely no sense at all.  So what are we left with?

1. The Leafs can overpay.
2. The Leafs can trade him.
3. Nylander can sit out.

All three of those options are terrible IMO.  If Dubas can pull this off at this point I will be impressed.  But I really don't think it's possible for a variety of reasons.

 

[ZBBM]

I wonder what the blowback will be if we trade Nylander and he immediately signs for $7.

My guess is that it would be considerable. It would either mean that Nylander was amenable to a long term deal at 7 here and Dubas just couldn't get it done or that the relationship deteriorated to the point that Nylander wanted out in which case that reflects badly on the team as well.

Yeah, but if it ever came to Nylander feeling that way (barring of course a Dubas etiquette breakdown) then the only thing it would demonstrate is that *he* failed to act professionally.  If this is all just "business" then he shouldn't take anything personally.  Dubas flew halfway around the world to tell him face to face "We love you."

 

[OldTimeHockey]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?

That's quite the stretch there.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, but if it ever came to Nylander feeling that way (barring of course a Dubas etiquette breakdown) then the only thing it would demonstrate is that *he* failed to act professionally.  If this is all just "business" then he shouldn't take anything personally.  Dubas flew halfway around the world to tell him face to face "We love you."

I don't agree. Managing the egos of professional athletes is part of the job of running a team. We can sit here and say that Nylander shouldn't take any of it personally but I think we know enough to say that Athletes can and do take these negotiations personally that it's not much of an excuse.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?

That's quite the stretch there.

Is it though? We?ve gotten used to every decision in Leafsland being about the long term, but let us look at this year in isolation for a moment.

The Leafs are 8-5, and when healthy have an amazing offence, great PP, solid goaltending... and cap space to burn. They also have a lot of middling prospects which along with draft picks can be turned into rental defensemen.

Next year the Leafs will be good... but cap crunch hits and it will be MUCH more tactical to acquire pieces.

If the Leafs aren?t thinking of taking a run this year, they?re wasting possibly the best opportunity they?ll have for ~5 years when the next batch of kids are maturing to complement the strong core they have built.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?

That's quite the stretch there.

Is it though? We?ve gotten used to every decision in Leafsland being about the long term, but let us look at this year in isolation for a moment.

The Leafs are 8-5, and when healthy have an amazing offence, great PP, solid goaltending... and cap space to burn. They also have a lot of middling prospects which along with draft picks can be turned into rental defensemen.

Next year the Leafs will be good... but cap crunch hits and it will be MUCH more tactical to acquire pieces.

If the Leafs aren?t thinking of taking a run this year, they?re wasting possibly the best opportunity they?ll have for ~5 years when the next batch of kids are maturing to complement the strong core they have built.

No one said anything about taking a run but speaking about the Stanley Cup is very premature.

Let's look at it realistically. The Leafs are 8 and 5. From those 13 games we've a seen a team spend a good chunk of time in their own end, a goalie that generally gives up one suspect goal a game, and an offence that has gone into hibernation at the first sign of other teams adjusting their game plans towards the team. The PP has also struggled mightily since teams have been aggressive on the Leaf players.

Like I said, it's a real stretch to start talking about the Stanley Cup.

 

[Frank E]

I would think that if Nylander gets traded, it'll be on November 30th so that they can say they did everything they could to sign him.

 

[Bullfrog]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?  I'm going to say the Leafs.  And it surprises me saying that.  I was thinking Dubas has all the power but Nylander really does hold some clout.
...

To me, it's actually a different scenario. I think if either had significantly more clout than the other, then a deal would be done. I think part of the issue is they probably both have solid evidence and rationale for their respective arguments.

With the money they're talking about, I wonder if they've considered a mediator.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

With the money they're talking about, I wonder if they've considered a mediator.

That's actually an interesting suggestion. There was an article the other week about how this could have all been avoided if the league gave arbitration rights to guys in Nylander's position. Either by having the contract decided there or by putting an earlier deadline on the two parties to figure something out themselves.

 

[Highlander]

With the money they're talking about, I wonder if they've considered a mediator.

That's actually an interesting suggestion. There was an article the other week about how this could have all been avoided if the league gave arbitration rights to guys in Nylander's position. Either by having the contract decided there or by putting an earlier deadline on the two parties to figure something out themselves.

Good suggestion, a mediator would be a great idea although the Leaf management team may feel usurped by introducing the concept.  Seems there is time for some arbitration changes.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Hope everyone is enjoying their 31 mediocre team NHL and the super swell salary cap.