My girlfriend had an ovarian cyst growing for a year after diagnosis because they couldn't place her for surgery because so many nurses were on covid duty, so on and on it grew until they managed to get her in in March just two weeks before they canceled elective surgery again because of the knock on effects of early reopening. It was heart wrenching because she was getting into serious pain and we had no idea if or when they'd remove it. Only once it was obvious that there'd be complications from waiting any longer did they fast track her back in. It was a horrible experience.Nik said:
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Highlander
- Start date
Bender said:
Thanks for a well thought out response.
I'm not interested in getting into the weeds either. But I will say, as to the question "why would an anti-parasite drug work on a virus?" I don't have the answer for that. But studies have shown in vitro that it has anti-viral activity (so do some antibiotics). And the data regarding its use in covid is out there for anyone who wants to look it up. I won't post links here because I'll be accused of being "anti-vax" but I will say there have been over 60 studies done in various parts of the world and something like 55 or 58 have shown benefit.
My main point was simply the phrase "I can understand why people are hesitant about the vaccine" and I provided reasons why. That is not an editorial statement about whether I believe people should get it - that's up to each individual.
I'll close with this, you people don't really deserve to know this information, but I have gotten 2 doses of the Pfizer vaccine. So I sure as hell hope there are no long term effects. I hope the concerns out there turn out to be wrong. But to deny the possibility is naive at best. As for me, I'm getting old enough (nearly 60) that the covid risk for me is higher, even though I have no known pre-existing conditions of importance. But the main reason I got the shot is because my wife is in a high-risk group due to some of her medical conditions. I thought getting the shot would make it much less likely that I would get the virus and transmit it to her. Now of course we are learning that vaccinated individuals can get the virus and transmit it, and the data from Israel shows that the protection decreases with time. So there's something we've already learned that wasn't expected. We were told that getting the vaccine would prevent you from getting infected (95% efficacy and all). What else will we learn over time.
I'm done, you can go back to your regularly scheduled programming.
moon111
New member
As an atheist, I see a huge part of the population being taught since they're born to believe in what they want to believe rather than use facts, deny facts, and not even question massive logical contradictions to their own rhetoric. Then people seem surprised when there's people out there that deny science, medical professionals, etc. and act like they're somehow going to be protected through their life.
Highlander
Active member
The fact of the matter is that these mRNA vaccines are proven to protect against being hospitalized and death. Yes Covid variants are out there, but for the most part those of us fully vaccinated may get sick but not enough to burden the medical system.
A few years back I paid a lot of money to get the shingles vaccine, damn I got Shingles within 6 months of the shot, but it was mild and went away on its own.
The whole thing about the mRNA technology is it has been around since the early 70's, its not brand new. And you can produce mega doses of shots, where with the old egg method we would never have been able to make enough vaccines to do what humanity has done now.
I just travelled through the US to St.Thomas, and St.Maarten and home again. The hoops that we had to jump through were huge. You can't even get into the airports in the islands without being double vaccinated and with a 48 hour negative Antigen test. Yet we all were wearing masks, when virtually you were in the safest place to take off your mask. I didn't fight it, I am getting to old and tired too do so. Plus wearing the mask is still the right thing to do.
Don't be afraid of the vaccines, they are better than the alternative which would have been Spanish Flu like death totals.
A few years back I paid a lot of money to get the shingles vaccine, damn I got Shingles within 6 months of the shot, but it was mild and went away on its own.
The whole thing about the mRNA technology is it has been around since the early 70's, its not brand new. And you can produce mega doses of shots, where with the old egg method we would never have been able to make enough vaccines to do what humanity has done now.
I just travelled through the US to St.Thomas, and St.Maarten and home again. The hoops that we had to jump through were huge. You can't even get into the airports in the islands without being double vaccinated and with a 48 hour negative Antigen test. Yet we all were wearing masks, when virtually you were in the safest place to take off your mask. I didn't fight it, I am getting to old and tired too do so. Plus wearing the mask is still the right thing to do.
Don't be afraid of the vaccines, they are better than the alternative which would have been Spanish Flu like death totals.
bustaheims
Active member
Bullfrog said:
At least Dr Hill is responsible enough to acknowledge the initial report contained bad information and revised his findings. The anti-vaxx/conspiracy crowd will come up with some nefarious reason for it, though.
I don't think anyone is denying the possibility of side effects, but generally in vaccines side effects are seen within the first few months. I literally said to my girlfriend earlier today that people will start attributing illnesses and disease that creep up on them even ten years from now with the vaccine (of which there are different types) in the same way they blamed vaccines for autism, despite little evidence and massive confounding factors.Chris said:
Again, my main point wasn't that vaccines are 100% safe, but that the idea that taking a pill not designed to combat the virus is safer and doesn't carry as many health risks regardless if what it is (Hydroxychloroquine anyone?) is nonsensical. People can rationalise anything if they try hard enough.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Bender said:
I don't even want to click on the tweet and read all the crap in the comments. I know 90% is probably supportive, but the 10% makes me want to give up on humanity.
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1429614355100880900
Kin
New member
Chris said:
But if you only list the possible negatives than being hesitant about anything can sound reasonable. All sorts of things can go wrong during surgery but if someone listed them and then said "And that's why I decided not to have the bypass operation" you would not, to put it mildly, think they were making a good decision.
And the issue isn't whether or not people are hesitant or if there are reasons to be. It's whether or not that hesitancy is leading people to make a decision that is having devastating effects for society.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Heroic Shrimp said:
That is really disturbing
https://twitter.com/Billius27/status/1429829975901888515?s=19
Sorry just had to share. I get that there are issues with our institutions but the level of skepticism and disregard for our institutions I think we've seen lately isn't a great way to maintain a cohesive society or the social contract.
Sorry just had to share. I get that there are issues with our institutions but the level of skepticism and disregard for our institutions I think we've seen lately isn't a great way to maintain a cohesive society or the social contract.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
Bender said:
I think people watch too many superhero movies and using a plot from Superman seems easier to comprehend than listening to reality from a doctor or scientist.
https://twitter.com/j_mcelroy/status/1429898441920958474
https://twitter.com/j_mcelroy/status/1429899737289805870
That makes two provinces now.
https://twitter.com/j_mcelroy/status/1429899737289805870
That makes two provinces now.
So here?s a question that?s been on my mind is bugging me. So the crux of the anti vaccination and anti mask folks boils down to ?freedom of choice? and that the government stay out of their affairs.
Ok.
So here?s what?s confusing me. If we look at what?s happening in Florida they have legislation which bans the use of masks in schools. And on top of that threatening to cut teachers wages if they use masks.
Is that not exactly the same thing? Removing the freedom of choice and the government interfering in their affairs? Honestly I?m not trying to be a jackass but I don?t see how this is any different than mandating mask wearing.
Ok.
So here?s what?s confusing me. If we look at what?s happening in Florida they have legislation which bans the use of masks in schools. And on top of that threatening to cut teachers wages if they use masks.
Is that not exactly the same thing? Removing the freedom of choice and the government interfering in their affairs? Honestly I?m not trying to be a jackass but I don?t see how this is any different than mandating mask wearing.
Bullfrog
Active member
well, it's more an illustration of why politicians aren't necessarily well-equipped to make public health decisions. They're clearly letting bias and political pressure influence their decisions.
I think the anti-vax and anti-mask issues are more complex than just freedom of choice, particularly with the anti-vax crowd.
I think the anti-vax and anti-mask issues are more complex than just freedom of choice, particularly with the anti-vax crowd.
bustaheims
Active member
Politicians are hypocrites. Plain and simple. They?ll say whatever they think appeals to their supporters or will garner them more votes. Or, these days, they?re just anti whatever the parties on the other end of the spectrum want - which, is really what all these anti-mask mandates and such are about. They just want to ?own the libs.? And, as long as their ?team? is saying it, they completely ignore any impact it has on the other sides rights and freedoms.