Game 38 - Toronto Maple Leafs @ Winnepeg Jets L3-2

[Leafaholic99]

Blame the loss on me, I've been to 7 Jets games this season and the Jets haven't lost once when I've gone and also haven't gone into OT/SO yet either.

Stupid Jets couldve lost last night and I'd have been ok with it.

Rowdy fans where I was sitting, same people as the other games I've gone too but this time I was the enemy and they didn't like it too much, they kept trying to get me to cheer for the Jets haha wasn't going to happen when they were playing my Leafs!

Feb 7th, payback time !

 

[Newbury]

So we end the year outside of a playoff spot? I only caught the first period, but the Leafs looked okay, and so did Reimer.

Meh, this team never surprises me. They really, really need a solid win streak of at least four here soon. And I'm anxious to see how long BB sits around if they lose a couple more in a row. Clearly, he can't fire Wilson this season can he? Maybe pick up a goaltender if it's at all possible?

 

[L K]

Poor Dave Steckel.  He must be getting tired of having to answer for the team's atrocious PK:

Quote
"On other teams I played on we had a rule where we never tried to take more three or four penalties in a game", Steckel said.  "How many did we take tonight?  We work on our penalty kill every practice and it seems we know exactly what we really want to do.  Maybe it's because there are no consequences when we get scored on in practice.  We seem to do things right for the most part, but then there's a breakdown and the puck ends up in our net.   It is very frustrating.  We need a game where we kill four or five penalties to get our confidence back."

Source:  Sportsnet

A little jab at the goaltending IMO. Rightfully so.

That's bull, and it isn't little mistakes.  It's idiot defensemen who aren't capable of not wandering into the corner (Phaneuf).  It's forwards who don't rotate when they chase the puck carrier so they leave guys open for blasts from the point.  It's letting guys get 3-5 whacks at pucks in close while two other guys stand in the crease and crowd the goaltender.

That's not one little mistake, it's a combination of many small mistakes and an inherent lack or unwillingness for the coaching staff to push accountability.  I'd love for our goaltenders to make more saves on the penalty kill, but quite frankly, far too many times they are giving up goals that you can normally shrug your shoulders at and chalk it up to a good scoring chance.  We need better goaltending (STOP STARTING REIMER EVERY GAME), we need competition between the two goaltenders, but what we really need is for the defensive players on this team to actually do their job.

Quite frankly,  I think it is embarrassing that the coach was given an extension in the middle of this stretch of hockey.  Burke/Wilson like to talk about putting up statues for players who have one good game, but it seems like Burke has erected his own statue of his coach for not having a good resume in Toronto.  Wilson has been a very good NHL coach, but this notion that what he did 7 years ago in San Jose or did 15 years ago in Washington is pretty irrelevant to what is going on right now. 

This is Wilson's 18th year as an NHL head coach, if the Leafs don't get back into a playoff spot by the end of the season, he will have missed the playoffs in 10 of those 18 years.  He lost in the first round twice, in the second round four times, and once for each of the Conference (San Jose) and Cup Finals (Washington).

He's 47-48 in the post-season for a .495 W%
He's 637-548-101-89  (W-L-T-OTL) for a .532 PT%

By the end of the year (assuming a change of heart by Burke), Wilson will be 4th all time in games coached.  He will be 6th in wins, 3rd in all-time losses (doesn't include OTLs where he would be #1).  I'm just having a hard time seeing how Wilson's results are much more than longevity at this point.  And being active for a long time in a league that is notorious for selecting from its own little brotherhood seems like not all that much to hang your hat on. 

That doesn't mean that Wilson hasn't had a very good NHL career, but in his 18th year as an NHL coach, he seems to be reaching that time-period where a lot of coaches go a little stale.

 

[Tigger]

Poor Dave Steckel.  He must be getting tired of having to answer for the team's atrocious PK:

Quote
"On other teams I played on we had a rule where we never tried to take more three or four penalties in a game", Steckel said.  "How many did we take tonight?  We work on our penalty kill every practice and it seems we know exactly what we really want to do.  Maybe it's because there are no consequences when we get scored on in practice.  We seem to do things right for the most part, but then there's a breakdown and the puck ends up in our net.   It is very frustrating.  We need a game where we kill four or five penalties to get our confidence back."

Source:  Sportsnet

A little jab at the goaltending IMO. Rightfully so.

How is that a jab at goaltending?

 

[bustaheims]

Poor Dave Steckel.  He must be getting tired of having to answer for the team's atrocious PK:

Quote
"On other teams I played on we had a rule where we never tried to take more three or four penalties in a game", Steckel said.  "How many did we take tonight?  We work on our penalty kill every practice and it seems we know exactly what we really want to do.  Maybe it's because there are no consequences when we get scored on in practice.  We seem to do things right for the most part, but then there's a breakdown and the puck ends up in our net.   It is very frustrating.  We need a game where we kill four or five penalties to get our confidence back."

Source:  Sportsnet

A little jab at the goaltending IMO. Rightfully so.

How is that a jab at goaltending?

Because Stone Cold said so?

 

[Tigger]

???

Woosh...

 

[Tigger]

That's not one little mistake, it's a combination of many small mistakes and an inherent lack or unwillingness for the coaching staff to push accountability.

I don't disagree with what you've noted about the pk but how do you measure 'accountability' for it the way you're describing?

 

[L K]

That's not one little mistake, it's a combination of many small mistakes and an inherent lack or unwillingness for the coaching staff to push accountability.

I don't disagree with what you've noted about the pk but how do you measure 'accountability' for it the way you're describing?

I'm not really sure, which is probably why I'm not an NHL head coach. 

Maybe you take away Phaneuf's spot on the #1 PP unit when he goes wandering into the corner on the PK to leave a guy with a free chance to walk in for a goal?

Maybe you sit Schenn in the pressbox/on the bench for a period when he doesn't take his man in front of the net and lets him get get 4-5 whacks at the puck until it finally goes behind Reimer/Gus?

Maybe Korbinian Holzer steps into the lineup for the defenseman who needlessly pinches in the middle of a tie-game only to get caught, resulting in a 3-on-1 break?

I don't know, maybe that kind of negative punishment doesn't work with the team?  Maybe you hold a dodgeball tournament or bring Justin Bieber to another practice to fix things? 

I wish I had an answer to that.  The thing is, for me at least, is that Wilson is getting paid a premium to make those things happen, and whatever he is doing, it isn't working.

 

[Tigger]

That's not one little mistake, it's a combination of many small mistakes and an inherent lack or unwillingness for the coaching staff to push accountability.

I don't disagree with what you've noted about the pk but how do you measure 'accountability' for it the way you're describing?

I'm not really sure, which is probably why I'm not an NHL head coach.

Ha, yeah me too.

Maybe you take away Phaneuf's spot on the #1 PP unit when he goes wandering into the corner on the PK to leave a guy with a free chance to walk in for a goal?

I dunno, wouldn't taking Phaneuf off the #1PP unit hurt the team too? Ice time is definitely an avenue available to a coach but it shouldn't be counterproductive. Maybe putting him on the second pk unit?

Maybe you sit Schenn in the pressbox/on the bench for a period when he doesn't take his man in front of the net and lets him get get 4-5 whacks at the puck until it finally goes behind Reimer/Gus?

Yeah, benching might help, personally I'd like to know what Reimer says to his dmen during the game, Wilson went out of his way to blame the dmen for screening him but Reimer wouldn't bite at that. Two deflections went by him from inexperienced dmen ( well Schenn is young at least, not sure if he counts as 'experienced' really )

Maybe Korbinian Holzer steps into the lineup for the defenseman who needlessly pinches in the middle of a tie-game only to get caught, resulting in a 3-on-1 break?

Was that Franson? Could do, though Franson still seems to be learning a completely different system. Hard to say for me but I haven't been a big fan of his skating either.

I wish I had an answer to that.  The thing is, for me at least, is that Wilson is getting paid a premium to make those things happen, and whatever he is doing, it isn't working.

Well, they have improved, the PP is dangerous, the defence is among the tops in the league in scoring. The obvious down side is that trading chances exposes the dmen at times and the pk is brutal ( they take too many penalties at times but last night was some brutal officiating as well ). What's missing is a complete game and of course what would help that is a complete and largely experienced roster which the Leafs don't have but I think they're coming along and are, maybe, halfway there.

Personally I find it difficult to say there's an unwillingness to hold people accountable, especially when I hear Wilson talk about them the way he did after the game but hey, maybe they're still talented enough to not get bag skated...

 

[Mack674]

Poor Dave Steckel.  He must be getting tired of having to answer for the team's atrocious PK:

Quote
"On other teams I played on we had a rule where we never tried to take more three or four penalties in a game", Steckel said.  "How many did we take tonight?  We work on our penalty kill every practice and it seems we know exactly what we really want to do.  Maybe it's because there are no consequences when we get scored on in practice.  We seem to do things right for the most part, but then there's a breakdown and the puck ends up in our net.   It is very frustrating.  We need a game where we kill four or five penalties to get our confidence back."

Source:  Sportsnet

A little jab at the goaltending IMO. Rightfully so.

..Wilson will be 4th all time in games coached.  He will be 6th in wins, 3rd in all-time losses (doesn't include OTLs where he would be #1).  I'm just having a hard time seeing how Wilson's results are much more than longevity at this point. And being active for a long time in a league that is notorious for selecting from its own little brotherhood seems like not all that much to hang your hat on.

THANK YOU

I don't know how it isnt obvious to everyone - of course he has tons of wins he's been around forever! Also again with the old boys club etc.... and when you break his stats down like you did, 535 win pctg? Oh wow, look out Bowman.

He's not anything above average, at best. Last time I checked, I thought this was the Toronto Maple Leafs and average wasn't exactly acceptable around here. The thought of Wilson being here for 3 more years makes me want to cry.

 

[Kin]

He's not anything above average, at best. Last time I checked, I thought this was the Toronto Maple Leafs and average wasn't exactly acceptable around here.

So the last time you checked was, what, the early 60's?

 

[Tigger]

Is Bowman available? No? Just where is this super coach that will take us to the promised land...

 

[Jalili]

I think Wilson's been a flop for TO, but but before you fire him you have to look at what happens to the offense and PP with a new coach and a new system. Has Wilson had anything to do with the team's scoring success? It's a honest question.

 

[Kin]

Is Bowman available? No? Just where is this super coach that will take us to the promised land...

Exactly. I mean, has a coach ever even been hired who wasn't a previous Stanley Cup winner? Don't people remember how the Bruins had to fight dozens of other teams to hire Claude Julien because of his Scotty Bowman like history?

Seriously, what's the point here? The Penguins won the cup the year they fired their coach and replaced him with someone with all of 54 games of AHL head coaching experience. Was he a super coach? Did the Penguins know with any degree of certainty that he'd improve the team?

The results that a coach gets from his team are, to some extent, the result of a roll of the dice. You don't need to know what the next roll is going to be to know you've crapped out.

 

[rdowdall]

I wish I knew why this team can't win.  Then I could be coach. 
Very frustrating to see the rebuilding Sens in a playoff spot and
the Leafs are now out.

I guess the Leafs are rebuilding too

I thought the leafs were almost rebuilt.

Funny how Talon turns Florida into a very good team in 1 year
while in year 4 Burke's team is still awful.

Leafs = awful

Florida = very good team

Toronto = 18 wins

Florida = 19 wins

Florida has 20 wins and 47 points.
Leafs have 18 wins and 41 points.

See a difference?

Whoops NHL.com team stats page didn't have the 20th win, saw it now on the standings page.

But seriously, that could again change in a week's time.  That's
not a big enough difference for one to be labeled very good and
another to be labeled awful, which was the point.

Difference is the games are getting tougher now (more pressure)
and Leafs are doing their usual crumble when the games count.
Once we're safely out of playoff spot they can go on a tear again
and miss the playoffs by 5-6 points.

In the second half, teams tighten up defensively and shore up their goaltending.  This will make it doubly difficult for a Toronto team unless they continue their offensive streak and better balanced scoring, turn their goaltending up a notch AND improve that PK a little bit, please!

One thing I have noticed is that teams that try and sit back on the Leafs, tend to get burned.  It allows them to push the pace.  It's when you forecheck the Leafs relentlessly that the problems occur for the team we cheer for.

 

[lamajama]

Poor Dave Steckel.  He must be getting tired of having to answer for the team's atrocious PK:

Quote
"On other teams I played on we had a rule where we never tried to take more three or four penalties in a game", Steckel said.  "How many did we take tonight?  We work on our penalty kill every practice and it seems we know exactly what we really want to do.  Maybe it's because there are no consequences when we get scored on in practice.  We seem to do things right for the most part, but then there's a breakdown and the puck ends up in our net.   It is very frustrating.  We need a game where we kill four or five penalties to get our confidence back."

Source:  Sportsnet

A little jab at the goaltending IMO. Rightfully so.

How is that a jab at goaltending?

When any mistake is made, the puck ends up in the net statisticly more than any other team in the NHL? I said it was a small jab and probably unintended as a jab but's that's how I read it. Mistakes will always be made. The Leafs just pay for them more dearly than any other team...

 

[Tigger]

You don't need to know what the next roll is going to be to know you've crapped out.

Yeah, I'm sure there's a process of discovery when looking for a coach but past Trelawney's crystal ball I don't know how you can guarantee a dice roll is going to be successful or 'above average', you hope it's the right fit and try to move ahead.

It can go Randy Carlyle good or Mike Murphy bad ( though jeebus help the Leafs if it's a Murphy laying down the law again... )

 

[Kin]

Yeah, I'm sure there's a process of discovery when looking for a coach but past Trelawney's crystal ball I don't know how you can guarantee a dice roll is going to be successful or 'above average', you hope it's the right fit and try to move ahead.

Exactly. There are no guarantees. If in order for a coaching change to happen there had to be a guarantee that the incoming coach would be better than the outgoing coach then there wouldn't have been a coaching change since the beginning of time. All a team can do, realistically, is take a frank look at the situation and decide if what they have is working. If it isn't, then they fire the coach and look for a new one even absent that guarantee.

That a new coach would be just as much of a gamble as Wilson himself was isn't a reason not to make the change. That gamble is a fact of life.