General Leafs Talk v2.0

[L K]

McLaren-Holland-Orr

How on earth does Holland deserve that?  Did he sleep with Carlyle's wife or something?

If they were worried about that, would they have traded for Gleason?

That's very old news and probably off-side for the content of the site.

 

[2badknees]

As long as that's the case, one of the team's other centres is going to be stuck on the 4th line between two guys that shouldn't be in the NHL.

I liked seeing Bodie on the 4th line. He's a big guy that hit everything that moved, and isn't allergic to actually playing the puck. A lot more utility than the standard facepuncher duo.

 

[AvroArrow]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but thought this was interesting:

The Luke Schenn-James van Riemsdyk trade seemed like a bad one for the Philadelphia Flyers when it happened. After a season and a half, it looks even worse ? van Riemsdyk is an Olympian for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and deservedly so. Schenn has regressed.

On Sunday, it actually got a little worse for Philly. General manager Paul Holmgren turned down a trade that would've sent van Riemsdyk to the Phoenix Coyotes for defenseman Keith Yandle a few hours before pulling the trigger on Schenn-JVR, according to CSN Philly's Tim Panaccio. Discussions between the two teams were reported at the time, but this is the first time we've seen it in such uncertain terms: the Flyers could've had Yandle, and said no thanks.

 

[2badknees]

I wonder if the yotes would take JVR for Yandle now.

 

[Jalili]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but thought this was interesting:

The Luke Schenn-James van Riemsdyk trade seemed like a bad one for the Philadelphia Flyers when it happened. After a season and a half, it looks even worse ? van Riemsdyk is an Olympian for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and deservedly so. Schenn has regressed.

On Sunday, it actually got a little worse for Philly. General manager Paul Holmgren turned down a trade that would've sent van Riemsdyk to the Phoenix Coyotes for defenseman Keith Yandle a few hours before pulling the trigger on Schenn-JVR, according to CSN Philly's Tim Panaccio. Discussions between the two teams were reported at the time, but this is the first time we've seen it in such uncertain terms: the Flyers could've had Yandle, and said no thanks.

Good god that is awful.

Should have been a hangable offence for Holmgren, but it seems like he's gotten away with a few of those already.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I call BS on that report. Yandle was miles ahead of Schenn at that time, and of course still is. Phoenix mus have wanted something substantial as well like a 1st or Brayden Schenn/Couturier.

 

[bustaheims]

I call BS on that report. Yandle was miles ahead of Schenn at that time, and of course still is. Phoenix mus have wanted something substantial as well like a 1st or Brayden Schenn/Couturier.

Yeah. There's no way it was a straight swap . . . though, even with another big piece in the deal, getting Yandle for JvR + B.Schenn/Couturier/1st would have been a better deal for the Failures than JvR for Schenn straight up.

 

[L K]

I call BS on that report. Yandle was miles ahead of Schenn at that time, and of course still is. Phoenix mus have wanted something substantial as well like a 1st or Brayden Schenn/Couturier.

Yeah. There's no way it was a straight swap . . . though, even with another big piece in the deal, getting Yandle for JvR + B.Schenn/Couturier/1st would have been a better deal for the Failures than JvR for Schenn straight up.

Although, I would counter that Schenn has started to pick things up a little in terms of his production.  45 point pace last year and 49 point pace this year.  He's two years younger than JVR so he's likely going to have similar offensive numbers to van Riemsdyk by the time he catches up in terms of age/NHL experience.  He hasn't become a dominant power-forward yet, but he's still just 22 so has a lot of time to grow into that role.  I think that starts to border on "not a good deal" in that circumstance, even with Schenn developing into more of a winger than future #1 center.

 

[bustaheims]

Although, I would counter that Schenn has started to pick things up a little in terms of his production.  45 point pace last year and 49 point pace this year.  He's two years younger than JVR so he's likely going to have similar offensive numbers to van Riemsdyk by the time he catches up in terms of age/NHL experience.  He hasn't become a dominant power-forward yet, but he's still just 22 so has a lot of time to grow into that role.  I think that starts to border on "not a good deal" in that circumstance, even with Schenn developing into more of a winger than future #1 center.

Even still, Yandle is on pace for 56 points this season, and was at a similar pace last season. So, really, you're getting a 50+ point defenceman for a pair of 50+ point forwards, and it's much easier to replace a 50+ point forward than it is to add a 50+ point defenceman. Yandle also represents a pretty significant need for the Failures. They don't have much in terms of young, healthy puck moving defencemen. I'd still say that would have been a pretty decent deal for Philly.

 

[moon111]

So www.sportsclubstats.com has the Leafs odds of making the playoffs at 45.3%.  Something is fundamentally wrong with the club.  My suspicion is coaching, young players too far stretched for readiness, lack of desire to do 'anything' to win.  Nonis should make a change now if he can, and definitely plan for  the trade deadline.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Not looking good.

?We felt like we were being more competitive in the areas [we need to be],? Leafs coach Randy Carlyle lamented after the loss to the Rangers. ?This one kind of sent an A-Bomb.?

This particular nuclear event, however, was also foreseeable. Even in collecting points regularly over the previous two weeks, the Leafs were badly outplayed in several games and escaped with wins primarily because of shootouts and great goaltending from Jonathan Bernier, who had a .950 save percentage in his last six outings.

The first game he faltered, they were blown out.

Which brings us back to ROW.

The Leafs are currently tied for seventh last in the NHL in regulation or overtime wins with only 14, putting them on pace for just under 27 this season.

In their last 29 games, meanwhile, Toronto has only five ROW and a 4-13 record in the 17 games that have ended in regulation.

They have managed to stay afloat in the Eastern Conference mainly because they have been involved in so many shootouts, with an incredible 34 per cent of their games in that span going to the gimmick. The Leafs have set a franchise record with seven shootout wins this season, winning more of them than all but the Washington Capitals.

While their record is 11-13-5 since Oct. 30, if you filter the six shootout wins and four losses out and count them as ties ? as they would have been prior to 2005-06 ? it would fall to 5-13-11.

And that 59-point full-season pace is a pretty accurate reflection of how poorly this team has played through 60 to 65 minutes in those games.

...

Shootouts are also one of the key reasons the NHL standings don?t always reflect the true quality of teams anymore, not when so many points are being given away almost randomly at the end of games. But if you parse what?s there a little, there are some really ugly indicators for the Leafs.

Consider, for example, that the 27 ROW they?re on pace for is lower than both the last full season Ron Wilson coached the team (32) and the ?18-wheeler going right off a cliff? season in which he was fired (31).

Speaking of which, in Wilson?s final 29 games as Leafs coach, during a tailspin deemed one of the worst in franchise history and unlike anything former GM Brian Burke had seen, they still won 11 games in regulation or overtime ? six more than the Leafs on their current two-month slide.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-woes-deeper-than-their-record-shows/article16201541/?cmpid=rss1&click=dlvr.it

 

[mr grieves]

Speaking of which, in Wilson?s final 29 games as Leafs coach, during a tailspin deemed one of the worst in franchise history and unlike anything former GM Brian Burke had seen, they still won 11 games in regulation or overtime ? six more than the Leafs on their current two-month slide.

This bit stuck out the most to me.


More quotes. This time from the Dregs.

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger on TSN Radio "Can't afford too many clunkers like Sat night. It was an anomaly because everyone was bad"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "unless these clunkers become a trend there is no need to dwell on it. Just view it as a blip and move on"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "can't throw out the good. Not that long ago when the Leafs dominated the Blackhawks at home"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "now the Leafs have additional injuries with Clarkson and Gunnarsson. Other guys need to step up"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "it's time for Clarkson to start scoring and Kadri to find his offense"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "we don't know what the next step is with Kadri because he is still developing. We can see the obvious skill set"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "there are the demons in Kadri's game that cause the coaches to not trust you. Carlyle is a tough hombre & Kadri needs to earn time"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "a coaching change will not happen in season. Kadri and the young players can't wait for a coaching change to turn their game around"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "Gleason didn't come in because you don't break up a winning hockey team and the Leafs had success heading into the Rangers game"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "I think Gleason will be an upgrade for the Leafs. He will help Toronto"

 

[bustaheims]

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "unless these clunkers become a trend there is no need to dwell on it. Just view it as a blip and move on"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "can't throw out the good. Not that long ago when the Leafs dominated the Blackhawks at home"

I find it really amusing that Dreger calls out the Rangers game for being a "blip," and then cites a game that is even more of an outlier in terms of how the team plays as a reason why people shouldn't be overly concerned.

 

[Redleaf]

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "unless these clunkers become a trend there is no need to dwell on it. Just view it as a blip and move on"

Hope_Smoke ‏@Hope_Smoke 3h
Dreger "can't throw out the good. Not that long ago when the Leafs dominated the Blackhawks at home"

I find it really amusing that Dreger calls out the Rangers game for being a "blip," and then cites a game that is even more of an outlier in terms of how the team plays as a reason why people shouldn't be overly concerned.

I think he's basically saying that both games were one-offs.

 

[mr grieves]

I think he's basically saying that both games were one-offs.

I read it more like busta does.

 

[bustaheims]

I think he's basically saying that both games were one-offs.

Maybe, though, it certainly doesn't come off that way. Really, the Rangers game was really just a more pronounced example of how the team has played all season - and especially in the past two months - whereas the Chicago and LA games stick out like sore thumbs.

 

[mr grieves]

I think he's basically saying that both games were one-offs.

Maybe, though, it certainly doesn't come off that way. Really, the Rangers game was really just a more pronounced example of how the team has played all season - and especially in the past two months - whereas the Chicago and LA games stick out like sore thumbs.

He's talking like a player looking for a glimmer of hope, a coach out of ideas, a GM justifying himself, or a fan.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

@So_Truculent
If the Leafs had used their amnesty buyout on Liles instead of Komisarek, they would be 39 games away from clearing both contracts.

@So_Truculent
Instead, they've got $4M of Carolina-washout Tim Gleason for 3 years

That first option seems so much better right now.  If Gleason can regain some form, great, and that would mitigate it - but the Leafs could have just allocated those funds elsewhere with a better use of the buyouts.

 

[Bullfrog]

True, but could they have known for sure that Rielly would make the team and that Ranger would be a serviceable NHLer (I know, debatable)?

Even with those risks, it would have a good idea though.

 

[L K]

True, but could they have known for sure that Rielly would make the team and that Ranger would be a serviceable NHLer (I know, debatable)?

Even with those risks, it would have a good idea though.

I think so.  Ranger was clearly going to be given a chance to make the roster.  Even without Rielly the defense easily could have been:

Phaneuf - Gunnarson
Franson - Gardiner
Ranger - Fraser
Holzer/Komisarek

It wouldn't have been a good defense but to be honest, the Leafs current defensive still isn't good.