Leafs Acquire ROR and Acciari

[CarltonTheBear]

For what it's worth, I really don't think the comparisons to Foligno are very fair:

https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1626792608906330114
https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1381364333779812354

 

[herman]

When O?Reilly re-signs for 2x1M next year?

 

[Zee]

For what it's worth, I really don't think the comparisons to Foligno are very fair:

https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1626792608906330114
https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1381364333779812354

Foligno also got immediately got hurt so wasn't even defensively all that great. Hopefully ROR stays healthy

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Good analysis there. Send it to Keefe lol. No PK for ROR.

If nothing else it should add someone else who can take face-offs. Kampf's taken 80% of Toronto's face-offs while shorthanded.

Both Kampf and ROR are oddly well below 50% on PK face-offs though.

 

[herman]

Dubas Presser....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t504GHGTE8

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2023/02/18/kyle-dubas-on-acquisition-of-ryan-oreilly-noel-acciari/

How concerned are you that you spent too many picks for the next draft?

Dubas: I don?t like to. I?d be lying if I stood up here and said it wasn?t a concern of mine. My view of it is that I would much rather keep the guys and the young players that are here and are signed. We know them and we know what they are about. We have our projection of what their potential is without overdoing it.

We also have been able to find players who have come into depth roles, which is really what you are expecting from the second, third, and fourth-round picks ? whether it is the Alex Steeves, the McManns, or Joey Anderson in a different trade. We have had Holmberg picked later.

Our ability to have some success in that realm has kind of dictated this. I don?t think it is sustainable for the very long run, but for where we are at right now, we have to do what we have to do.

With the way those guys had progressed ? whether it is Minten, Knies, Grebenkin, Hirvonen, or Niemela ? I was more comfortable moving the picks than I was moving the people who we know and have a deeper insight into their potential and also how they work with our development staff. The picks are not as certain.

 

[bustaheims]

This feels more like the Giordano Trade than the Foligno Trade (Muzzin insurance; Tavares insurance rather than Thornton insurance)

Yeah. ROR?s role will be much more defined than Foligno?s ever was. And, upgrading the 3C position was much more of a need than anything Foligno was supposed to bring. Even Acciari feels like a better fit than Foligno.

I don't know...Foligno was sandpaper + leadership + could play centre and could play top-6 mins if needed, right?

Never felt that way to me. He was never a consistent producer, so top 6 minutes always felt like a stretch, wasn?t a natural centre - certainly hasn?t spent much time there at the NHL level. Other than some physical play, it never felt like he was going to offer much.

 

[Highlander]

This feels more like the Giordano Trade than the Foligno Trade (Muzzin insurance; Tavares insurance rather than Thornton insurance)

Yeah. ROR?s role will be much more defined than Foligno?s ever was. And, upgrading the 3C position was much more of a need than anything Foligno was supposed to bring. Even Acciari feels like a better fit than Foligno.

I don't know...Foligno was sandpaper + leadership + could play centre and could play top-6 mins if needed, right?

Never felt that way to me. He was never a consistent producer, so top 6 minutes always felt like a stretch, wasn?t a natural centre - certainly hasn?t spent much time there at the NHL level. Other than some physical play, it never felt like he was going to offer much.

It was a nightmare trade that didn't work out. Worst Dubas work against many fine moves.

 

[Bender]

This feels more like the Giordano Trade than the Foligno Trade (Muzzin insurance; Tavares insurance rather than Thornton insurance)

Yeah. ROR?s role will be much more defined than Foligno?s ever was. And, upgrading the 3C position was much more of a need than anything Foligno was supposed to bring. Even Acciari feels like a better fit than Foligno.

I don't know...Foligno was sandpaper + leadership + could play centre and could play top-6 mins if needed, right?

Never felt that way to me. He was never a consistent producer, so top 6 minutes always felt like a stretch, wasn?t a natural centre - certainly hasn?t spent much time there at the NHL level. Other than some physical play, it never felt like he was going to offer much.

It was a nightmare trade that didn't work out. Worst Dubas work against many fine moves.

I can't help but think if Foligno's back held up we would be looking at this trade differently. He's clearly having a good year with Boston and seemingly without much injury. I still think we needed to get Taylor Hall though...

 

[ZBBM]

This feels more like the Giordano Trade than the Foligno Trade (Muzzin insurance; Tavares insurance rather than Thornton insurance)

Yeah. ROR?s role will be much more defined than Foligno?s ever was. And, upgrading the 3C position was much more of a need than anything Foligno was supposed to bring. Even Acciari feels like a better fit than Foligno.

I don't know...Foligno was sandpaper + leadership + could play centre and could play top-6 mins if needed, right?

Never felt that way to me. He was never a consistent producer, so top 6 minutes always felt like a stretch, wasn?t a natural centre - certainly hasn?t spent much time there at the NHL level. Other than some physical play, it never felt like he was going to offer much.

It was a nightmare trade that didn't work out. Worst Dubas work against many fine moves.

I can't help but think if Foligno's back held up we would be looking at this trade differently. He's clearly having a good year with Boston and seemingly without much injury. I still think we needed to get Taylor Hall though...

Yeah, it's like, you know, bringing bakc Doug Gilmour for about a minute and a half.  It could have been beautiful.

 

[princedpw]

https://twitter.com/jhanhky/status/1626947320402042882

This feels more like the Giordano Trade than the Foligno Trade (Muzzin insurance; Tavares insurance rather than Thornton insurance)

A will-never-happen set of lines but love dreaming about Nylander-O?Reilly destroying people together on the third line. Sounds like they complement each other?s skill sets well.

Defensively impenetrable set of lines.

Bunting - Matthews - Kerfoot
Jarnkrok- Tavares - Marner
X - O?Rielly - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - X

 

[herman]

A will-never-happen set of lines but love dreaming about Nylander-O?Reilly destroying people together on the third line. Sounds like they complement each other?s skill sets well.

Defensively impenetrable set of lines.

Bunting - Matthews - Kerfoot
Jarnkrok- Tavares - Marner
X - O?Rielly - Nylander
Engvall - Kampf - X

If Keefe needs to pull out a super line a la previous failed playoffs (Tavares-Matthews-Marner), then you?d probably see some O?Reilly-Nylander as a secondary attack line. I think we will see some reps of the top six being mixed and matched down the stretch to see what picks up chemistry and to at least make sure the options aren?t starting completely from zero.

 

[Bullfrog]

Given he's leading the team in both points and goals, I was kinda hoping the "let's spread out the offense and put Nylander on the 3rd line" talk would end.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I'm not sure why we'd want to take Nylander away from Matthews. The magic is still there. That pass from Matthews to Nylander last night was incredible.

 

[hobarth]

This is a definite wait and see trade, O'Rielly has less points than Engvall so I wouldn't include O'Rielly in any list of superior players TO needs to be more successful in the playoffs. I do expect O'Rielly would be a fine addition to TO's bottom 6, I'd love to see him and Engvall on the same line with maybe Acciari/Jarnkrok even Kerfoot. TO might now have the foundation of a decent bottom 6, some decent offense and d but O'Rielly's -26 in 42 games is scary and paired with his puny offensive numbers, I wonder if his true value was 2019, not 2023.

TO still needs another forward, a starish type that can play and contribute in the top 6, O'Rielly and Acciari probably help but TO still needs a massive addition to the top 6 forwards, someone that can/will contribute when things are on the line, these additions don't move that needle.

I didn't like how Keefe configured the lines with the new additions but I doubt these lines are what we'll see come playoff time.

What I'd like to see:

Bunting/Matthews/Nylander

?/JT/Mitch

Engvall/O'Rielly/Acciari

Jarnkrok/Kerfoot/Kampf

If Dubie can come up with someone decent for the JT line then he will have accomplished something. How he might be able to do this after using so much to acquire O'Rielly and Acciari will be very interesting.

I just went thru the rosters of teams that won't make the playoffs and I don't see a match for TO's needs, for a variety of reasons, so let's hope Knies is a ready made star or at least a decent top 6 player.

 

[ZBBM]

He spent this year's 1st on ROR/Acc.  He isn't going to be adding a starrish player.

We have to hope that ROR is more like the last couple of years than what he put up with STL this year.  We aren't getting the 2019 model.

 

[Highlander]

In the Athletic today there is an article about ROR fitting in with the team, if you can read  the first comment from Oliver. Amazing story about ROR having to kick in the door to get to Acciari and his equipment. There was no key.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/InsideLeafs/status/1627782641549250560
Seravelli really doesn't like this deal (Leafs twitter theorizes he is miffed he did not get the scoop).

Leafs gave up 2 contract slots and 4 picks to get Noel Acciari and Ryan O'Reilly (75% retained).

Timo Meier's actual salary (QO notwithstanding) actually makes it more difficult (costly) to get the double-retention out of a third party. O'Reilly's actual base salary this season was 1M, so a pro-rated 25% amounts to ~76k (4th rd pick). Meier's 10M base salary is a fat chunk of change to eat (~760k) and a team should ask for the requisite compensation.

Edit: actual retention dollars fixed

 

[dappleganger]

https://twitter.com/InsideLeafs/status/1627782641549250560
Seravelli really doesn't like this deal (Leafs twitter theorizes he is miffed he did not get the scoop).

Leafs gave up 2 contract slots and 4 picks to get Noel Acciari and Ryan O'Reilly (75% retained).

Timo Meier's actual salary (QO notwithstanding) actually makes it more difficult (costly) to get the double-retention out of a third party. O'Reilly's actual base salary this season was 1M, so a pro-rated 25% amounts to ~74k (4th rd pick). Meier's 10M base salary is a fat chunk of change to eat (nearly 750k) and a team should ask for the requisite compensation.

It was reported Minnesota paid $37k in actual money for their part of the salary retention. Easy deal for the Wild to make, imo.

Edit regarding below: There ya go. $76k in actual dollars. Easy to do.

 

[herman]

It was reported Minnesota paid $37k in actual money for their part of the salary retention. Easy deal for the Wild to make, imo.

Ah yes, we're about 30% of the season left at the time of the deal's consummation.

https://twitter.com/PuckPedia/status/1626817722381373440
I think this is closer to correct. My back of the napkin calc was ((186-133)/186) * 25% of 1M = ~72k
There are probably some dedicated off-days in the year that shouldn't be counted (holiday break, each team's 5 days).

RE: Meier's retention amount, assuming 50% + 50%, the actual dollars required goes down the closer you get to the deadline, so that's likely when such a deal will occur, if it does at all.

 

[Bill_Berg]

In the Athletic today there is an article about ROR fitting in with the team, if you can read  the first comment from Oliver. Amazing story about ROR having to kick in the door to get to Acciari and his equipment. There was no key.

That story is like a Chuck Norris meme.