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Nik Bethune said:azzurri63 said:There is no excuse for 3 clear cut breakaways let alone the other scoring chances they got.
One day you might figure out that explanations aren't excuses. I don't feel the need to "excuse" anything the Leafs do because I'm not their angry boss checking what time they came into work and despite the fact that you like to pretend otherwise, neither are you.
azzurri63 said:So why are we on this forum?
azzurri63 said:You think there's nothing wrong with it
Zee said:Leafs are 6-3 under Keefe and trending in the right direction, can't we just enjoy that for now?
Frank E said:There's a difference between saying "they're just terrible" and discussing "there's a problem defending leads that needs to be addressed."
Nik Bethune said:azzurri63 said:So why are we on this forum?
To talk about the team, most of us. It's just that, by and large, that usually doesn't take the part of getting angry over stuff we have no control over or saying the same thing over and over and over and over.
Some of us accept the concept of nuance and try to have slightly more constructive analysis.
azzurri63 said:You think there's nothing wrong with it
I've said repeatedly today that I don't think they're a very good defensive team.
I appreciate that because I'm not in the threads saying that I think they should trade everyone because they don't hit because they're not big tough guys like you are that you can't perceive that as criticism but it's pretty straightforward and clear.
I didn't see the Cup finals after the Leafs were eliminated so was just going by what I had heard about the guy. But usually great goaltending throughout the playoffs is crucial for any team to take home the Cup. Fairly simple and not contrary to any point of view.Guilt Trip said:Well you did elevate Biddington to HHOF status putting him in that group...Pretty sure Flower is a slam dunk for the HHOF. I would agree though, goaltending has the biggest effect on Cup winners. Very few times in history have teams won despite their goalies. Red Wings come to mind as one.Highlander said:Ok, the other guys then...geez ???Guilt Trip said:Binnington? He may have been the main reason for the team turnaround with a 1.89 GAA and .927 SV% but he wasn't as good in the playoffs, 2.46 GAA, .917 SV%. He had quite a few subpar games . I remember thinking at one point the only reason the finals went to 7 games was because of him and not in a good way.Highlander said:Certainly is, Bower, Sawchuck, Dryden, Fleury, Binnington and the list goes on and on. Great Goaltending wins Stanley Cups more than any other single factor.Hobbes said:Isn't that pretty much the First Commandment of the NHL GM Bible?Nik Bethune said:...needing consistently excellent goaltending to advance deep in the playoffs is probably true regardless.
Oh forgot Brodeur as one of the clutch guys and long term, man could he handle the puck. Wish he could give Freddie some stickhandling lessonsNik Bethune said:Also, just in general, re: the Red Wings it's true that they won 3 of their 4 Cups with goalies who aren't going to the HHOF or serious candidates for it but when they won those cups those middling goalies played very well. Vernon won the Conn Smythe in '97 and Osgood had a .930 SV% in 2008. Osgood "only" had a .918 SV% in '98 which I guess qualifies but I think the list of teams who won cups with mid-range goalies getting hot at the right moment is actually pretty long. Just off the top of my head there's Cam Ward, Anti Niemi, Tom Barrasso, Jonathan Quick in 2014 etc.
He was on/off. Def need the goaltending or you're done and he was good enough 4 times.Highlander said:I didn't see the Cup finals after the Leafs were eliminated so was just going by what I had heard about the guy. But usually great goaltending throughout the playoffs is crucial for any team to take home the Cup. Fairly simple and not contrary to any point of view.Guilt Trip said:Well you did elevate Biddington to HHOF status putting him in that group...Pretty sure Flower is a slam dunk for the HHOF. I would agree though, goaltending has the biggest effect on Cup winners. Very few times in history have teams won despite their goalies. Red Wings come to mind as one.Highlander said:Ok, the other guys then...geez ???Guilt Trip said:Binnington? He may have been the main reason for the team turnaround with a 1.89 GAA and .927 SV% but he wasn't as good in the playoffs, 2.46 GAA, .917 SV%. He had quite a few subpar games . I remember thinking at one point the only reason the finals went to 7 games was because of him and not in a good way.Highlander said:Certainly is, Bower, Sawchuck, Dryden, Fleury, Binnington and the list goes on and on. Great Goaltending wins Stanley Cups more than any other single factor.Hobbes said:Isn't that pretty much the First Commandment of the NHL GM Bible?Nik Bethune said:...needing consistently excellent goaltending to advance deep in the playoffs is probably true regardless.
azzurri63 said:You don't even know who I am so why would you assume that?
Yep and his win percentage everywhere he has been are off the charts. Let's hope it continues to trend in the same manor.Zee said:Leafs are 6-3 under Keefe and trending in the right direction, can't we just enjoy that for now?
Nik Bethune said:Frank E said:There's a difference between saying "they're just terrible" and discussing "there's a problem defending leads that needs to be addressed."
Yes, although that should probably involve some context like "They're 11-0-2 when leading after 2" and "They're 6-2-1 when leading after 1" so it's not a huge problem.
Frank E said:I honestly was just throwing that out there as an example of a discussion...purely just from what was talked about from the game that I didn't watch last night. But given they've played so much from behind, that's an interesting statistic you bring up.
Nik Bethune said:Frank E said:I honestly was just throwing that out there as an example of a discussion...purely just from what was talked about from the game that I didn't watch last night. But given they've played so much from behind, that's an interesting statistic you bring up.
It's actually sort of an interesting split. The Leafs are:
11-0-2 when leading after 2
0-8-1 when trailing after 2
4-5-1 when it's tied after 2
11-0-2, for what it's worth, is exactly what the Bruins are when leading after 2. The big difference is Boston has won almost every game where it's tied after 2(5-1-0) and they have a pretty good record when behind after 2(4-4-3). Also the Bruins are 5-1 in one goal games while the Leafs are 0-4.
I suspect that part of the "Leafs can't protect a lead" notion is heavily influenced by our last four playoff elimination games where they failed to do exactly that. Not sure that can be called "recency bias" but I'm sure it's in the back of many people's minds. Without some heriocs from Freddie they could easily have blown last night's game.Nik Bethune said:11-0-2, for what it's worth, is exactly what the Bruins are when leading after 2...
Nik Bethune said:Yes, although that should probably involve some context like "They're 11-0-2 when leading after 2" and "They're 6-2-1 when leading after 1" so it's not a huge problem.
bustaheims said:Nik Bethune said:Yes, although that should probably involve some context like "They're 11-0-2 when leading after 2" and "They're 6-2-1 when leading after 1" so it's not a huge problem.
Yeah. Defending leads hasn?t felt like a serious issue this season. The bigger problem has been giving up the first goal - which, with their defensive shortcomings, has a bit of a tendency to snowball when the Leafs aren?t able to respond quickly (or, at least, it feels that way).
Highlander said:Yep and his win percentage everywhere he has been are off the charts. Let's hope it continues to trend in the same manor.Zee said:Leafs are 6-3 under Keefe and trending in the right direction, can't we just enjoy that for now?
Frank E said:The Leafs are 6th worst in the league in GA at this point.
Nik Bethune said:Frank E said:The Leafs are 6th worst in the league in GA at this point.
9th worst but sure. They're also 3rd worst in SA/G. Which adds up to a team that's struggling defensively and in net(Freddy is obviously good but the backup situation has the team under league average in SV%)
But what I'm saying about their third period last night is that while it certainly was frustrating to watch it wasn't endemic of what's been plaguing them all year. It was kind of a freak occurrence and should be seen as such. That doesn't mean the defensive issues aren't there, just that they shouldn't be overstated. If they improved by 1.2 SA/G they'd be firmly in the middle of the league and same if they'd allowed 6 or so fewer goals all year.