Leafs Draft 21st Overall - Overall Draft Order

[iwas11in67]

So why can't we trade for the 2nd, 3rd or 4th pick and then trade up.

 

[Kin]

So why can't we trade for the 2nd, 3rd or 4th pick and then trade up.

Well, leaving aside that you'd have to find two teams willing to trade down that probably doubles the cost of it. Unless the plan is for McKinnon to play 1 on 5 for most of his career you probably don't want to trade the entire team for him.

 

[bustaheims]

So why can't we trade for the 2nd, 3rd or 4th pick and then trade up.

Because it's almost as rare for teams to trade out of the top 5, and the cost to do so and then trade again for the top pick makes it more than just prohibitive, it makes it down right insane.

Basically, you need a top 3 pick to have a chance at trading for the #1 pick. You need a top 5 pick to have a realistic shot at landing a top 3 pick, and you need a top 10 pick to have a realistic chance at landing a top 5 pick. It would take 4 or 5 moves for the Leafs to get the #1 pick, and, to do so without either gutting the team, gutting the farm system or both is practically impossible. Getting the top pick is a nice dream, but, it really is just that - a dream.

 

[dappleganger]

There isn't a plausible scenario for the Leafs to move up to the top pick. I doubt Nonis spends anytime contemplating the possibility.

 

[bustaheims]

There isn't a plausible scenario for the Leafs to move up to the top pick. I doubt Nonis spends anytime contemplating the possibility.

Well, it's his job to at least contact Colorado and see what they'd be looking for, but, he's not going to put in a lot of work to make it happen, because it's unlikely the team comes out better at the other end. Realistically, any scenario that sees the Leafs coming out with the #1 pick probably sets them back 5 years.

 

[ZBBM]

Tallon reportedly will entertain offers for the second. 

 

[Rebel_1812]

Has there ever been a case where a team picking outside of the top 5 has ever traded for a #1 pick?

I know Rick Nash was picked by trading up a couple of spots...but the Leafs are way outside the top 5.

1st overall picks don't get moved all that often, so, there's not much to base things on. That being said, outside of a handful of deals made well before the draft order was determined, there is only a single instance of a 1st overall pick being traded to a team that didn't already have a top 4 pick, and only one where the other team didn't have a top 3 pick. The only time it ever happened was in 1975.

What about when Gretzky was drafted...  Oh wait he wasn't and no one ever seemed to care.

 

[Kin]

Has there ever been a case where a team picking outside of the top 5 has ever traded for a #1 pick?

I know Rick Nash was picked by trading up a couple of spots...but the Leafs are way outside the top 5.

1st overall picks don't get moved all that often, so, there's not much to base things on. That being said, outside of a handful of deals made well before the draft order was determined, there is only a single instance of a 1st overall pick being traded to a team that didn't already have a top 4 pick, and only one where the other team didn't have a top 3 pick. The only time it ever happened was in 1975.

What about when Gretzky was drafted...  Oh wait he wasn't and no one ever seemed to care.

No one cared because he was signed to the WHA under their rules at the time.

 

[GFK27]

Mckinnon is possible generational talent that doesn't along very often.

MacKinnon's going to be a very good player, but he's not a generational talent. He's much closer to a Tavares/Hall/RNH level talent. He's not a guy you blow up your team to acquire.

I mentioned he a "possible"  generational talent. Mckinnon is a far superior skater than  Tavares.or  RNH . I believe he could more dominant than all 3. Smith would make for the loss of Reimer  The Leafs should put their foot in the water and make a major deal. Mckinnon would be great    cornerstone and with him and Kadri at center it could a start of great offensive team.

 

[lamajama]

Mckinnon is possible generational talent that doesn't along very often.

MacKinnon's going to be a very good player, but he's not a generational talent. He's much closer to a Tavares/Hall/RNH level talent. He's not a guy you blow up your team to acquire.

I mentioned he a "possible"  generational talent. Mckinnon is a far superior skater than  Tavares.or  RNH . I believe he could more dominant than all 3. Smith would make for the loss of Reimer  The Leafs should put their foot in the water and make a major deal. Mckinnon would be great    cornerstone and with him and Kadri at center it could a start of great offensive team.

Let's get PK Subban or Eric Karlsson (sp?) while we're at it.

 

[bustaheims]

What about when Gretzky was drafted...  Oh wait he wasn't and no one ever seemed to care.

And this is relevant how?

 

[Wendel's Fist]

What about when Gretzky was drafted...  Oh wait he wasn't and no one ever seemed to care.

And this is relevant how?

I think the point was that you don't have to draft a great centre.

I'm just guessing because otherwise, I have no idea what the hell that had to do with anything.

 

[Kin]

What about when Gretzky was drafted...  Oh wait he wasn't and no one ever seemed to care.

And this is relevant how?

I think the point was that you don't have to draft a great centre.

I'm just guessing because otherwise, I have no idea what the hell that had to do with anything.

Well that's easy then. All the Leafs have to do is go back in time and join the WHA.

 

[Wendel's Fist]

What about when Gretzky was drafted...  Oh wait he wasn't and no one ever seemed to care.

And this is relevant how?

I think the point was that you don't have to draft a great centre.

I'm just guessing because otherwise, I have no idea what the hell that had to do with anything.

Well that's easy then. All the Leafs have to do is go back in time and join the WHA.

Nobody said life had to be hard.

 

[drummond]

There isn't a plausible scenario for the Leafs to move up to the top pick. I doubt Nonis spends anytime contemplating the possibility.

The Leafs should concentrate on evaluating the talent which is most probably available to them when they draft. I would not trade away assets just to move up 3 spots. There is talent in every round, the thing is to identify it. Leafs can hire a plethora of consultants, send them all around the globe to find those guys. Just look at Detroit - Datsyuk (6th round, 171 overall), Zetterberg (7th round, 210 overall), Holmstrom (10th round, 257 overall), even one of the greatest players of our time Lidstrom was selected in the 3rd round (53 overall).

 

[hap_leaf]

There isn't a plausible scenario for the Leafs to move up to the top pick. I doubt Nonis spends anytime contemplating the possibility.

The Leafs should concentrate on evaluating the talent which is most probably available to them when they draft. I would not trade away assets just to move up 3 spots. There is talent in every round, the thing is to identify it. Leafs can hire a plethora of consultants, send them all around the globe to find those guys. Just look at Detroit - Datsyuk (6th round, 171 overall), Zetterberg (7th round, 210 overall), Holmstrom (10th round, 257 overall), even one of the greatest players of our time Lidstrom was selected in the 3rd round (53 overall).

Great point Drummond.
Antropov was supposed to go in the second round but I believe we had scouts in Kazakhstan to suggest he may not last so we picked him at #10.  It would be a better example if we picked him up in a later round like Detroit seems so able to do.  But I do take some pride that the organization was willing to go half way round the world to a place where just getting hockey equipment for youth hockey was nearly impossible at that time.  To scout a guy that would make a fair contribution to the Leafs some day. 
You just never know!  A guy like Antropov was a decent risk.  I still feel he could have developed into a bit better player overall.  Just imagine getting any of those Detroit players you mention.  The Draft is so exciting.

 

[caver]

What about when Gretzky was drafted...  Oh wait he wasn't and no one ever seemed to care.

And this is relevant how?

I think the point was that you don't have to draft a great centre.

I'm just guessing because otherwise, I have no idea what the hell that had to do with anything.

Well that's easy then. All the Leafs have to do is go back in time and join the WHA.

LOL !!

 

[dappleganger]

What about when Gretzky was drafted...  Oh wait he wasn't and no one ever seemed to care.

And this is relevant how?

I think the point was that you don't have to draft a great centre.

I'm just guessing because otherwise, I have no idea what the hell that had to do with anything.

Well that's easy then. All the Leafs have to do is go back in time and join the WHA.

Or we start signing 17 year-olds before they enter the draft.

 

[bustaheims]

Or we start signing 17 year-olds before they enter the draft.

Sure. I mean, why should the Leafs have to follow the rules they agreed to, right?

 

[bustaheims]

I mentioned he a "possible"  generational talent. Mckinnon is a far superior skater than  Tavares.or  RNH . I believe he could more dominant than all 3. Smith would make for the loss of Reimer  The Leafs should put their foot in the water and make a major deal. Mckinnon would be great    cornerstone and with him and Kadri at center it could a start of great offensive team.

Yeah, and I'm saying he's not even a "possible" generational talent. If he were, he'd be the clear cut #1 and would have been all season - but, he's not. There's a very good chance Jones could go #1 and an outside chance that Drouin could. Secondly, if he were a possible generational talent, there'd be absolutely no consideration that Colorado would move that pick. Teams don't even consider trades when possible generational talents are on the board. Thirdly, if he were a possible generational talent, the trade you proposed would be laughable - I mean, it's already pretty bad, but it would be worse. First off, Colorado would have little to no interest in Reimer - they already have a very good young goalie in Varlamov that they gave up major assets to acquire. Secondly, they'd demand that the so far unnamed roster player be either Kadri or Gardiner and they'd insist that the unnamed prospect be Rielly. And, if MacKinnon was in fact a possible generational talent, they'd still decline, but, since he's not, that would be an absurd deal for the Leafs to make. On top of that, you don't trade your starting goalie in the hopes of signing an older, injury prone goalie who has only had one season of real success, and that was behind one of the most stifling defensive teams in the league. Smith is a pretty significant downgrade on Reimer.