Leafs Draft 21st Overall - Overall Draft Order

[GFK27]

I mentioned he a "possible"  generational talent. Mckinnon is a far superior skater than  Tavares.or  RNH . I believe he could more dominant than all 3. Smith would make for the loss of Reimer  The Leafs should put their foot in the water and make a major deal. Mckinnon would be great    cornerstone and with him and Kadri at center it could a start of great offensive team.

Yeah, and I'm saying he's not even a "possible" generational talent. If he were, he'd be the clear cut #1 and would have been all season - but, he's not. There's a very good chance Jones could go #1 and an outside chance that Drouin could. Secondly, if he were a possible generational talent, there'd be absolutely no consideration that Colorado would move that pick. Teams don't even consider trades when possible generational talents are on the board. Thirdly, if he were a possible generational talent, the trade you proposed would be laughable - I mean, it's already pretty bad, but it would be worse. First off, Colorado would have little to no interest in Reimer - they already have a very good young goalie in Varlamov that they gave up major assets to acquire. Secondly, they'd demand that the so far unnamed roster player be either Kadri or Gardiner and they'd insist that the unnamed prospect be Rielly. And, if MacKinnon was in fact a possible generational talent, they'd still decline, but, since he's not, that would be an absurd deal for the Leafs to make. On top of that, you don't trade your starting goalie in the hopes of signing an older, injury prone goalie who has only had one season of real success, and that was behind one of the most stifling defensive teams in the league. Smith is a pretty significant downgrade on Reimer.

You must have a crystal ball unlike you I don't have all the answers. All 3 look like gems. You could be right or so could I. As for Reimer he had one good playoff. I am a fan however he is replaceable. Leafs fan tend to overrate much of their players. Smith was outstanding for the Coyotes in the 2011-2012 playoffs. In a few years we will see who is right. Players like or Mckinnon or Jones don't come very often. Many scouts have said that Mckinnon is the best forward to come along since Sidney Crosby. Nathan has the speed , agility and lower body strength like Crosby.

 

[Kin]

You must have a crystal ball unlike you I don't have all the answers. All 3 look like gems. You could be right or so could I. As for Reimer he had one good playoff. I am a fan however he is replaceable. Leafs fan tend to overrate much of their players. Smith was outstanding for the Coyotes in the 2011-2012 playoffs. In a few years we will see who is right. Players like or Mckinnon or Jones don't come very often. Many scouts have said that Mckinnon is the best forward to come along since Sidney Crosby. Nathan has the speed , agility and lower body strength like Crosby.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to recognize the inherent contradiction between "McKinnon is an amazing, world class, possibly generational talent" and "The Leafs will be able to trade for him with a package that every team in the league could easily match."

 

[Kin]

There is talent in every round, the thing is to identify it. Leafs can hire a plethora of consultants, send them all around the globe to find those guys. Just look at Detroit - Datsyuk (6th round, 171 overall), Zetterberg (7th round, 210 overall), Holmstrom (10th round, 257 overall), even one of the greatest players of our time Lidstrom was selected in the 3rd round (53 overall).

Alright, look at Detroit: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html. Honestly, their draft record in the last 15 years is good but they blow picks, just like everyone else. If we limit it to the last 12 years then Detroit, past the Zetterberg/Datsyuk picks, really isn't anything to write home about despite the same team making their picks. Scouting is getting better, making those late round steals harder and the reality is that throwing more scouts into the picture isn't the answer.

The reason trading up for picks can be a good strategy is because no team has a monopoly on identifying talent. In 2003 it cost the Devils a high 3rd round pick to move up from 21 to 17 and take Zack Parise.

 

[Jalili]

What set Detroit apart was their Euro scouting.

They were able to pluck obscure prospects that scouts of other teams knew very little about, but I think by now the playing field has leveled in that respect.

As an example, there's a story about Vancouver scouting (and eventually picking) Alex Edler because they got wind that he was on Detroit's radar.

But Detroit's track record with regard to NA scouting is average at best.

 

[dappleganger]

Or we start signing 17 year-olds before they enter the draft.

Sure. I mean, why should the Leafs have to follow the rules they agreed to, right?

It seems pretty clear to me. Just sign the under age players to 'Personal Services Contract' instead of a standard players contract. They could pay them handsomely but they'd have to wait until the players are 22 before they could sign a SPC with the Leafs. The players could ply their trade in the KHL until then, I'm sure the KHL wouldn't mind.

OR, the Leafs could secede from the NHL and sign anyone they wanted. Create Hockey's version of the Harlem Globetrotters. They could go on a World Exhibition tour, probably even play in the Spengler Cup!

Once the NHL realizes they can't make any money without the Leafs paying for everyone else to be in the League, they will BAG for the Leafs to come back. The Leafs condition upon return is that they get to keep all the players currently under contract.

Rules are made to be broken. They only problem is finding ways to do it legally. Where is Nelson Skalbania when you need him?

 

[GFK27]

You must have a crystal ball unlike you I don't have all the answers. All 3 look like gems. You could be right or so could I. As for Reimer he had one good playoff. I am a fan however he is replaceable. Leafs fan tend to overrate much of their players. Smith was outstanding for the Coyotes in the 2011-2012 playoffs. In a few years we will see who is right. Players like or Mckinnon or Jones don't come very often. Many scouts have said that Mckinnon is the best forward to come along since Sidney Crosby. Nathan has the speed , agility and lower body strength like Crosby.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to recognize the inherent contradiction between "McKinnon is an amazing, world class, possibly generational talent" and "The Leafs will be able to trade for him with a package that every team in the league could easily match."

I didn't say we able to acquire him, just make an attempt to.  You made a lot of statements such he is not a generational talent that is your opinion,  he might. The draft many times a is crap shoot.  Scouts that have scouted for decades are many times proven wrong. The players drafted at age 18 are alot of times hard to project how they will progress in the next 5 years. 

 

[Champ Kind]

You must have a crystal ball unlike you I don't have all the answers. All 3 look like gems. You could be right or so could I. As for Reimer he had one good playoff. I am a fan however he is replaceable. Leafs fan tend to overrate much of their players. Smith was outstanding for the Coyotes in the 2011-2012 playoffs. In a few years we will see who is right. Players like or Mckinnon or Jones don't come very often. Many scouts have said that Mckinnon is the best forward to come along since Sidney Crosby. Nathan has the speed , agility and lower body strength like Crosby.

It doesn't take a crystal ball to recognize the inherent contradiction between "McKinnon is an amazing, world class, possibly generational talent" and "The Leafs will be able to trade for him with a package that every team in the league could easily match."

I didn't say we able to acquire him, just make an attempt to.  You made a lot of statements such he is not a generational talent that is your opinion,  he might. The draft many times a is crap shoot.  Scouts that have scouted for decades are many times proven wrong. The players drafted at age 18 are alot of times hard to project how they will progress in the next 5 years.

So, you say that the "draft is a crap shoot", but then your argument is that the Leafs should essentially blow up their team for a draft pick.  Don't you see the contradiction here?

 

[Kin]

I didn't say we able to acquire him, just make an attempt to.  You made a lot of statements such he is not a generational talent that is your opinion,  he might. The draft many times a is crap shoot.  Scouts that have scouted for decades are many times proven wrong. The players drafted at age 18 are alot of times hard to project how they will progress in the next 5 years.

Well, for starters, I haven't said word one about how good I think McKinnon will be in the NHL. I wrote a post in another thread about how I still think Jones will go #1 but that's less a reflection on McKinnon than on Jones being a better fit for Colorado.

Anyways, I'm fine with anyone having any opinion they want about how they think he'll play in the NHL, from Sidney Crosby Jr. to an Alex Daigle-like bust and points in between. I do think, though, that any constructive discussion based around acquiring him should realistically reflect the cost of moving up that high in the draft. There's a reason why, throughout NHL history and especially recent history, that teams haven't been able to acquire top 2 picks and, trust me, it's not because teams weren't able to see talent at the top of the draft.

 

[GFK27]

I didn't say we able to acquire him, just make an attempt to.  You made a lot of statements such he is not a generational talent that is your opinion,  he might. The draft many times a is crap shoot.  Scouts that have scouted for decades are many times proven wrong. The players drafted at age 18 are alot of times hard to project how they will progress in the next 5 years.

Well, for starters, I haven't said word one about how good I think McKinnon will be in the NHL. I wrote a post in another thread about how I still think Jones will go #1 but that's less a reflection on McKinnon than on Jones being a better fit for Colorado.

Anyways, I'm fine with anyone having any opinion they want about how they think he'll play in the NHL, from Sidney Crosby Jr. to an Alex Daigle-like bust and points in between. I do think, though, that any constructive discussion based around acquiring him should realistically reflect the cost of moving up that high in the draft. There's a reason why, throughout NHL history and especially recent history, that teams haven't been able to acquire top 2 picks and, trust me, it's not because teams weren't able to see talent at the top of the draft.

You did directly say that Mckinnon was  not a generational player, therefore limiting how good he could be. I believe that the Leafs, due to Brian Burke and his staff improving their overall roster and prospect depth, could offer a solid deal

 

[bustaheims]

You did directly say that Mckinnon was  not a generational player, therefore limiting how good he could be. I believe that the Leafs, due to Brian Burke and his staff improving their overall roster and prospect depth, could offer a solid deal

Saying he's not a generational talent is hardly limiting how good he can be. It really has no impact on him. It's just a more accurate portrayal of his talent. He's not a Crosby/Ovechkin/Stamkos/Malkin level talent. Those are generational type talents. That doesn't mean he won't still be a very good player. He could still very well end up similar to guys like Eric Staal or Patrick Kane. In fact, all things considered, Kane is probably a pretty good comparable for him.

 

[Kin]

You did directly say that Mckinnon was  not a generational player, therefore limiting how good he could be.

No, I didn't. Busta did. The way you know that I didn't is that considering most people would agree that there are 4 or 5 "generational" players in the NHL right now I think it's a meaningless term regardless.

I believe that the Leafs, due to Brian Burke and his staff improving their overall roster and prospect depth, could offer a solid deal

Again, every team in the league could offer a "solid" deal, as determined by what you presented as the cornerstones of your proposed trade. To present a realistic deal, however, would decimate the team beyond the point where the whole process makes sense.

 

[louisstamos]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Bo Horvat from the London Knights being a possibility at #21.  Anyone know much about him?

 

[Champ Kind]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Bo Horvat from the London Knights being a possibility at #21.  Anyone know much about him?

I know it would be cool if he wore #34

 

[Mr. Leaf]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Bo Horvat from the London Knights being a possibility at #21.  Anyone know much about him?

I know it would be cool if he wore #34

I don't get it.  Why?

 

[Corn Flake]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Bo Horvat from the London Knights being a possibility at #21.  Anyone know much about him?

Watched him a bit at the memorial cup.  Decent player, a legit scoring threat out there and a bigger part of that Knights team than what was generally noticed, IMO.... Domi got all the attention.  Didn't see enough to really project out but wouldn't be shocked to see him go mid-late 1st round.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

Morning chaps. Will Leafs management likely want to trade up to pick someone that they fancy?  Not necessarily even into the top 5, but just to get a better pick or is it not worth the risk?

 

[Mr. Leaf]

Morning chaps. Will Leafs management likely want to trade up to pick someone that they fancy?  Not necessarily even into the top 5, but just to get a better pick or is it not worth the risk?

I think I would rather they just take whoever is available that they like at 21 so they don't have to sacrifice the 2nd round pick or whatever the price would be to move up. 

 

[Deebo]

Morning chaps. Will Leafs management likely want to trade up to pick someone that they fancy?  Not necessarily even into the top 5, but just to get a better pick or is it not worth the risk?

I think I would rather they just take whoever is available that they like at 21 so they don't have to sacrifice the 2nd round pick or whatever the price would be to move up. 

I would hope that if they like someone enough that they would  be aggressive and get him.

Like when the Devils gave up a 2nd (Jean-Francois Jacques) to move up to take Parise instead of Marc-Antoine Pouliot who was taken with their pick or when Ottawa gave up a 3rd (Taylor Beck) to move up to take Karlsson when Chet Pickard was taken with their pick.

 

[Kessel Run]

Morning chaps. Will Leafs management likely want to trade up to pick someone that they fancy?  Not necessarily even into the top 5, but just to get a better pick or is it not worth the risk?

I think I would rather they just take whoever is available that they like at 21 so they don't have to sacrifice the 2nd round pick or whatever the price would be to move up. 

I would hope that if they like someone enough that they would  be aggressive and get him.

Like when the Devils gave up a 2nd (Jean-Francois Jacques) to move up to take Parise instead of Marc-Antoine Pouliot who was taken with their pick or when Ottawa gave up a 3rd (Taylor Beck) to move up to take Karlsson when Chet Pickard was taken with their pick.

You present a compelling argument.

 

[Britishbulldog]

With MacTavish looking to move Horcoff and Hemsky, I wonder if the Leafs could work out a trade package with the 21st pick and a player or 2 that the Oilers could use the 7th pick and for one of those 2 Oilers whom would be immediately bought out ?