Captain Canuck
New member
Heroic Shrimp said:Just based on his helmet, my kids are going to love this dude:
Lego is Danish so pretty clever to incorporate that into the design!
Leafs Get Andersen from Ducks
- Thread starter WhatIfGodWasALeaf
- Start date
Lego is Danish so pretty clever to incorporate that into the design!
Captain Canuck
New member
Not sure why so many are bent out of shape by this deal?
He is the #1 now, but not necessarily when this team is ready to compete. Most are saying we are years away, probably close to the 5 years, so Andersen may just be a bridge goalie (or not depending on his play).
Also, if he plays awful there is nothing to say we are stuck with him for the entire 5 years, trades are always a possibility, as proven by moving Clarkson.
I'm not sure why some are saying Andersen is too old or unproven, but then want Reimer back who is older and seemingly not as talented? No thanks, been there done that, time to move on!
This deal on its own is not going to significantly increase the pace of the rebuild. We needed a capable NHL goalie for next season, so why not go out and get one? Bernier isn't the answer, maybe Andersen is?
I don't take great joy in watching this team tank, would rather this team do a little better next year and get to watch some entertaining hockey.
The Leafs aren't going to be a playoff team next year due to this move, but likely won't finish dead last either and I'm just fine with that.
He is the #1 now, but not necessarily when this team is ready to compete. Most are saying we are years away, probably close to the 5 years, so Andersen may just be a bridge goalie (or not depending on his play).
Also, if he plays awful there is nothing to say we are stuck with him for the entire 5 years, trades are always a possibility, as proven by moving Clarkson.
I'm not sure why some are saying Andersen is too old or unproven, but then want Reimer back who is older and seemingly not as talented? No thanks, been there done that, time to move on!
This deal on its own is not going to significantly increase the pace of the rebuild. We needed a capable NHL goalie for next season, so why not go out and get one? Bernier isn't the answer, maybe Andersen is?
I don't take great joy in watching this team tank, would rather this team do a little better next year and get to watch some entertaining hockey.
The Leafs aren't going to be a playoff team next year due to this move, but likely won't finish dead last either and I'm just fine with that.
Heroic Shrimp
New member
I wonder if the Leafs feel there will be a premium to acquiring bigger, mobile goalies in anticipation of smaller goalie equipment.
mr grieves
New member
[tweet]745056361449283585[/tweet]
Beginning to think maybe there are too many goalie stats out there? Burtch had some that showed Andersen was pretty great. Others point to mediocre. Others to marginal starter.
Beginning to think maybe there are too many goalie stats out there? Burtch had some that showed Andersen was pretty great. Others point to mediocre. Others to marginal starter.
Nik the Trik said:
Leafs fans will complain about anything...they got the best goalie available at a decent price. It seems most people wanted a vezina caliber goalie for a ( late) 1st rounder....all reward and no risk from a leafs standpoint. Bottom line is Bernier had been sh*t for two years straight....and Reimer ain't the answer. So they had to do something. Maybe a hall of famer will be drafted at 30....but if he's out there then the Leafs scouts should be able to intentify him and trade up to get him sooner.
herman
Well-known member
This is what I expected the Leafs to do and I don't mind it.
He's either the championship goalie, or just the stabilizer until someone we draft or acquire fits the bill better. Like Potvin said earlier, a freshly drafted goalie would project out to 6-7 years before hitting prime. We just spent a pick we were thinking of using on a goalie, plus an extra pick of less than coin toss value to get one still on the upswing of his development and will match up with our other prospects' growth.
I like Heroic Shrimp's point about Andersen's size and mobility as well. If there was ever a position to push for size, goalie is my obvious choice. He plays big, quick, and quiet.
Obviously the scouting staff have identified something in Andersen that is worth investing in and was willing to pay full retail value to get him before others had the chance. I don't think his play will impede the rebuild as much as a scoring forward would, but I am pouring one out for our chances at Liljegren.
He's either the championship goalie, or just the stabilizer until someone we draft or acquire fits the bill better. Like Potvin said earlier, a freshly drafted goalie would project out to 6-7 years before hitting prime. We just spent a pick we were thinking of using on a goalie, plus an extra pick of less than coin toss value to get one still on the upswing of his development and will match up with our other prospects' growth.
I like Heroic Shrimp's point about Andersen's size and mobility as well. If there was ever a position to push for size, goalie is my obvious choice. He plays big, quick, and quiet.
Obviously the scouting staff have identified something in Andersen that is worth investing in and was willing to pay full retail value to get him before others had the chance. I don't think his play will impede the rebuild as much as a scoring forward would, but I am pouring one out for our chances at Liljegren.
ZBBM
Active member
I think the idea that the Shanaplan was going to be a 5 or 6 or 7 year wait until we finally reached contender status was undercut the moment he signed Lou. Lamoriello will be 74 in October. He literally doesn't have 6 or 7 years to wait before the team even contends. Lou's comments today tell me he -- and Shanahan -- want to contend within 5.
I think the likelihood of Stamkos coming just went up by a fair bit.
I think the likelihood of Stamkos coming just went up by a fair bit.
mr grieves
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I don't think 5-7 before contending was ever really the plan. I mean, if the core guys don't pan out, it'll be longer, and management wants to prepare fans for that possibility. But the recently drafted high-end talent will be at the height of and about to pass their peaks in 7 years (Nylander and Marner, anyway). I'd imagine they have enough faith in the players they scouted and drafted that they're planning to have pieces in place to contend season 3 (after Matthews).
Kin
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
The problem there is that when Lamoriello was hired and, really, right up until your post here the idea that the plan was for LL to be the GM for when the team was contending was never really advanced by the people who liked the decision. It was always within the context of Lou serving as the next step in the process until Dubas was ready. To provide experience/stability for the length of the contract he signed but for the team to not really be "his" in the way we think of traditional GM roles.
I don't think we've seen anything that fundamentally changes that. They might very well be planning a shorter time frame than some people thought but I don't think that has anything to do with Lou's age.
Because let's be fair, the conversation about the hiring would have been very different if that was a factor.
Boston Leaf
New member
Well this trade and signing was made by the combo of Lou and Shanny and Dubas and the cap guy (forget his name)... So for now I am good. this is not the Burke/Nonis/JFJ guys who made this trade and many others that failed.. I do trust in the brain trust. I am sure they asked Babcock his thoughts who would have seen him a little bit as well.. I am trying to wipe slate clean from always thinking we make bad deals.. thumbs up
Zee
Active member
Boston Leaf said:
I'm trusting the management until they give me reason not to. The five-year deal for a guy we've never seen play for the Leafs is a bit suspect, but I'll reserve judgement until I see this guy put in a full season. I think there's more moves to come this week leading up to the draft as well. This team will be interesting come October, I can hardly wait.
Kin
New member
wnc096 said:
But by that same measure I could say the Leafs fans are all saps because some of them defend every move. I was here for the Toskala trade and the Raycroft trade and the Bernier trade and I can tell you for certain that those trades weren't universally derided when they were made. Some liked them, some didn't.
In a large and diverse fanbase there's almost certainly going to be a difference of opinion on most moves because most moves aren't going to be straight wins for either side and the ones that get hailed as such, like the Phaneuf trade, sometimes don't turn out so great.
What people disagree with here seems to be less about what they gave up, although it is on the high side, and more about the idea that they "had" to do something. A lot of people were prepared to go into next year with Bernier and a cheap veteran back-up because where the team finishes next year isn't that important to them.
And the draft doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. The Leafs can't just trade up to get whoever they want. If there's someone they really think is good who might be available at 25-30 then other teams might think the same way about that player and either not trade down or compete with the Leafs to trade up. Trading up is expensive and there's no guarantee you get the player you want unless you're picking 1st.
The Leafs front office seems pretty competent but let's not pretend they're superheroes until they start getting exceptional results. Having a good front office doesn't mean they'll know a ton other teams don't or always be right about who's a good pick and who isn't. Having a wealth of picks are your best odds to find a really good player there and so the loss of two picks in that vicinity is a legitimately high price to pay. Maybe Andersen proves worth it but I wouldn't be so dismissive of people who look at this the other way.
Kin
New member
Captain Canuck said:
I don't count many being bent out of shape by it. Some just don't like it.
Captain Canuck said:
Clarkson was a pretty unique situation because of Horton's injury/not being insured. The Kessel deal should be another piece of proof that while trades might be a possibility, a lot of times they involve doing something you really don't want to do like retain salary. Also, I think if it were possible to move any bad contract you'd see a lot more bad contracts being moved. Some teams do have to eat bad money or buy-out deals. You think Detroit wouldn't have Weiss if they could have instead of buying him out? Think LA is thrilled about Dustin Brown's deal?
LA and Detroit aren't badly run teams, the reality is that if the Cap doesn't grow the way it used to teams are going to be more and more reluctant to take bad money. Especially if there's term and super-especially if it's not an injury/retirement situation and you actually have to pay the guy.
Captain Canuck said:
I think some people dispute the idea that you needed one next year. Or at least that you needed anything other than a decent back-up. Bernier probably isn't the long-term answer sure but we're not talking about a night and day difference. Bernier's career SV%(and SV% with the Leafs) is .915. Anderson's SV% in his three seasons is .918. Even having a bad year last year the difference between Bernier and a league average SV% was less than 10 goals. The difference between Andersen, playing on a much better team, and Bernier was 15 goals in roughly the same amoung of playing time.
Captain Canuck said:
Credit where it's due. That's honest. I don't think anyone takes real joy in watching the team tank, I just think some people think it's best for the long-term future of the club. I sure take joy in picturing what Matthews will do for the Leafs.
But still, if more people were honest about being motivated by just wanting to watch the team be better there's one thread in particular on the board that I think would be about 70 pages shorter.
Captain Canuck said:
I am not so much bent out of shape as I am concerned that this is the wrong move at too high a price when it was unnecessary to do so.
I am puzzled by the history of trading for a part time goalie on a reasonably successful team with the expectation that he will be able to translate that into similar, if not better, numbers on a full time basis with a Leaf team that has an acknowledged less than average defence. Then, as usual, we sign him to a long term contract without any assurance he will achieve the forgoing.
Frankly, the numbers Andersen had last year are roughly comparable to those of James Reimer.
Reimer played behind a significantly worse defence it must be remembered. Andersen was supported by better forwards and better defence men -- to the point where the availability of a Duck blue liner as a free agent was one most Leaf fans' wish list.
And what did we get for Reimer?
Not much; certainly not a first and a second.
It is arguable then that we would have been better off re-signing Reimer, keeping the picks and using one of them to draft a goalie prospect to develop over the next two years when we then actually need him.Finally, I see this as a departure from the otherwise consistent patient "Shanaplan" rebuild.
Those are my concerns.
Jolly good show chaps
Member
Thoughts today are that I'm still fairly pleased but would have preferred if we could have signed him for 3-4 years and if one of the picks traded could have been a decent prospect instead (to get a contract off the books).
GhostofPotvin29
New member
KW Sluggo said:
There is some evidence that the Leafs actually gave up less second-chance/rebound opportunities than the Ducks last season, so I wouldn't say at this point the drop off in team defense should be too drastic for him.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
cabber24 said:
He is only a "cast away" goalie from another team because that other team has another very good goalie who is even younger and they had to make a decision on one of them. Cory Schneider was a "cast away" from Vancouver if you want to use that same definition and he's probably a top 5 goalie in the league.