Leafs @ Red Wings - Dec. 10th, 8:00pm - SN, Fan 590

[Heroic Shrimp]

That was pretty nice of the skaters, letting Reimer get two games worth of work after sitting so long.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

Hey there's Phil. Imagine we win this?

Imagine. Part of me hopes they don't. I think they really need to feel the full brunt of this pathetic performance, and a win would take some of the weight off of it.

I really didn't think it was that bad of a performance, esp. coming off a big win the night before. Give them some credit once and a while. They played good enough to get the 'W'. Reimer was the difference, but that doesn't discount all the on ice battles it took to win this one....

There were definitely some mitigating circumstances for the leafs in this one.  Like back to back nights, first game on the road in a while, their opponent hadn't played since sunday.  But they played awful.  Most of the time they couldn't even touch the puck.  If you played this game 10 times over the leafs would lose 9 of them.  Fortunately for them this was the 1 out of 10.

Fair enough, but when you say they played awful, let's not forget they were also playing one of the hottest, top tier teams in the league right now. I mean, are we really resigned to thinking they should be playing better than they are against teams like Detroit?

Let's see what they can do on Saturday against this same squad before we all announce how crappy they're playing.

I'm by no means saying this represents how the leafs play overall.  Like as I was reminded earlier tonight the leafs did beat the redwings 4-1 earlier in the season.  Obviously the redwings turned in a great performance tonight and I agree they're probably one of the best teams in the league right now. 

I just think tonight is one of those nights you chant REIMER REIMER and try to forget the rest of what happened.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

That was pretty nice of the skaters, letting Reimer get two games worth of work after sitting so long.

It's good he had so many weeks off before that game...otherwise he would have been exhausted after the first.

 

[Redleaf]

Hey there's Phil. Imagine we win this?

Imagine. Part of me hopes they don't. I think they really need to feel the full brunt of this pathetic performance, and a win would take some of the weight off of it.

I really didn't think it was that bad of a performance, esp. coming off a big win the night before. Give them some credit once and a while. They played good enough to get the 'W'. Reimer was the difference, but that doesn't discount all the on ice battles it took to win this one....

There were definitely some mitigating circumstances for the leafs in this one.  Like back to back nights, first game on the road in a while, their opponent hadn't played since sunday.  But they played awful.  Most of the time they couldn't even touch the puck.  If you played this game 10 times over the leafs would lose 9 of them.  Fortunately for them this was the 1 out of 10.

Fair enough, but when you say they played awful, let's not forget they were also playing one of the hottest, top tier teams in the league right now. I mean, are we really resigned to thinking they should be playing better than they are against teams like Detroit?

Let's see what they can do on Saturday against this same squad before we all announce how crappy they're playing.

I'm by no means saying this represents how the leafs play overall.  Like as I was reminded earlier tonight the leafs did beat the redwings 4-1 earlier in the season.  Obviously the redwings turned in a great performance tonight and I agree they're probably one of the best teams in the league right now. 

I just think tonight is one of those nights you chant REIMER REIMER and try to forget the rest of what happened.

That's true, but even really good teams rely on their goaltenders to win games more often then they should.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Kudos to Reimer in stonewalling the Wings offence, especially when taking into account the fact that he (Reimer) hadn't played in a month.
Well done, James!

As for the Leafs, this wasn't one of their better games.  They'll need to do some finetuning, but winning in the shootout is all that mattered in the end.

 

[Andy007]

Hey there's Phil. Imagine we win this?

Imagine. Part of me hopes they don't. I think they really need to feel the full brunt of this pathetic performance, and a win would take some of the weight off of it.

I really didn't think it was that bad of a performance, esp. coming off a big win the night before. Give them some credit once and a while. They played good enough to get the 'W'. Reimer was the difference, but that doesn't discount all the on ice battles it took to win this one....

There were definitely some mitigating circumstances for the leafs in this one.  Like back to back nights, first game on the road in a while, their opponent hadn't played since sunday.  But they played awful.  Most of the time they couldn't even touch the puck.  If you played this game 10 times over the leafs would lose 9 of them.  Fortunately for them this was the 1 out of 10.

Fair enough, but when you say they played awful, let's not forget they were also playing one of the hottest, top tier teams in the league right now. I mean, are we really resigned to thinking they should be playing better than they are against teams like Detroit?

Let's see what they can do on Saturday against this same squad before we all announce how crappy they're playing.

I'm by no means saying this represents how the leafs play overall.  Like as I was reminded earlier tonight the leafs did beat the redwings 4-1 earlier in the season.  Obviously the redwings turned in a great performance tonight and I agree they're probably one of the best teams in the league right now. 

I just think tonight is one of those nights you chant REIMER REIMER and try to forget the rest of what happened.

That's true, but even really good teams rely on their goaltenders to win games more often then they should.

Do really good teams look, for the entire 60 minutes, like the Washington Generals playing the Harlem Globetrotters?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

That's true, but even really good teams rely on their goaltenders to win games more often then they should.

Sometimes? Yes. More often than they should? That's pretty much the hallmark of NOT a really good team.

 

[Courtnall]

About time it's our backup stealing a game instead of the other teams backup robbing the leafs.

 

[Highlander]

The Wings were robbed last night but a dude called Riemer.  What we witnessed is what a coach the caliber of Babcock brings to the table. Unbelievalbe positional play without resorting to the trap. They covered us like a blanket.
Unfortunetly it looks like our potential coach to be is not coming. At least not right now.

 

[Redleaf]

That's true, but even really good teams rely on their goaltenders to win games more often then they should.

Sometimes? Yes. More often than they should? That's pretty much the hallmark of NOT a really good team.

Ok. So then what is the consensus here? That they still aren't a very good team, and are playing above their heads right now? I can go along with that.

But, they are finding ways to bend but not break when playing some the top teams in the league right now. So, why all the negativity?

This is a rebuilding club, learning to be more consistent, and I think we can all agree that they arent yet among the best teams in the league. So then why do fans expect them to play better than they do against the top teams like Detroit??

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

busta is Dubas.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/kyle-dubas-toronto-maple-leafs-sustainable-salutegate/

 

[bustaheims]

busta is Dubas.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/kyle-dubas-toronto-maple-leafs-sustainable-salutegate/

Man, I wish. That would do wonders for my bank account.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

This is a rebuilding club, learning to be more consistent, and I think we can all agree that they arent yet among the best teams in the league. So then why do fans expect them to play better than they do against the top teams like Detroit??

This was one of the most lopsided possession games of the entire season. You can't explain that by just saying Detroit is good and Toronto is bad. Besides, the point people were trying to make here is that the Leafs played awful last night. There's no sugar-coating it, which is what you were trying to do by saying it wasn't that bad of a performance and that the Leafs were winning battles. It was bad and they weren't.

 

[herman]

The Wings were robbed last night but a dude called Riemer.  What we witnessed is what a coach the caliber of Babcock brings to the table. Unbelievalbe positional play without resorting to the trap. They covered us like a blanket.
Unfortunetly it looks like our potential coach to be is not coming. At least not right now.

Yeah, they (Detroit) were definitely a sight to see. They move up and down the ice like football players, creating space for each other, supporting the puck movement, and cutting off passing lanes. Two passes and out of their own zone, 2 passes and into ours, always hitting their targets in motion. It's not just coaching though: it's the identification of the right template of players in every round of the draft available, the patient development of them at every level, and the indoctrination of a system that works.

Our team is pretty talented with gamebreaking ability, but they haven't figured out how to play as a team for more than 1 period every 3 games. Probably because the gamebreakers are trying to do too much, or do it too prettily. Our foundation needs fixing.

I enjoyed the win (nothing quite like snatching victory from the grasp of a division rival), but I was perturbed by the habits we exhibited (granted, they were playing on the road against a top tier team on the back half of a back to back). We have some good pieces already, but lots of improvement ahead of us.

 

[Redleaf]

This is a rebuilding club, learning to be more consistent, and I think we can all agree that they arent yet among the best teams in the league. So then why do fans expect them to play better than they do against the top teams like Detroit??

This was one of the most lopsided possession games of the entire season. You can't explain that by just saying Detroit is good and Toronto is bad. Besides, the point people were trying to make here is that the Leafs played awful last night. There's no sugar-coating it, which is what you were trying to do by saying it wasn't that bad of a performance and that the Leafs were winning battles. It was bad and they weren't.

So you don't think it's fair to say Toronto had a bad 'possession game' last night because Detroit is much better at holding onto the puck?

I mean, if one team is better at keeping possession of the puck than the other doesn't it go without saying that the other team won't have it as much as they usually do, and the numbers would reflect that?

 

[Redleaf]

The Wings were robbed last night but a dude called Riemer.  What we witnessed is what a coach the caliber of Babcock brings to the table. Unbelievalbe positional play without resorting to the trap. They covered us like a blanket.
Unfortunetly it looks like our potential coach to be is not coming. At least not right now.

Yeah, they (Detroit) were definitely a sight to see. They move up and down the ice like football players, creating space for each other, supporting the puck movement, and cutting off passing lanes. Two passes and out of their own zone, 2 passes and into ours, always hitting their targets in motion. It's not just coaching though: it's the identification of the right template of players in every round of the draft available, the patient development of them at every level, and the indoctrination of a system that works.

Our team is pretty talented with gamebreaking ability, but they haven't figured out how to play as a team for more than 1 period every 3 games. Probably because the gamebreakers are trying to do too much, or do it too prettily. Our foundation needs fixing.

I enjoyed the win (nothing quite like snatching victory from the grasp of a division rival), but I was perturbed by the habits we exhibited (granted, they were playing on the road against a top tier team on the back half of a back to back). We have some good pieces already, but lots of improvement ahead of us.

Well put. Improvement is needed, but at least were starting to see more of it, compared to last season and the season before.

 

[Kin]

So then why do fans expect them to play better than they do against the top teams like Detroit??

Because what happened last night is emblematic of a poor ability to drive the play that has shown itself against games against all sorts of teams.

Also, fans might expect them to play better against top teams like Detroit because this year the Leafs have played better against top teams...like Detroit.

 

[bustaheims]

So you don't think it's fair to say Toronto had a bad 'possession game' last night because Detroit is much better at holding onto the puck?

I mean, if one team is better at keeping possession of the puck than the other doesn't it go without saying that the other team won't have it as much as they usually do, and the numbers would reflect that?

It's not just that Detroit controlled the possession of the puck last night. You're right in that was reasonably to be expected considering the circumstances. It's the extent to which is happened. If the Wings had a possession rating between 55-60%, then, yeah, you can explain a lot of the difference away with the difference in talent and the rest of the circumstances. The problem is that Detroit had an even-strength corsi rating of 74%. That represents much more than the difference between a rested Wings and a tired Leafs. That's the 3rd highest corsi rating any team has had in over 400 NHL games this season. That's existing NHL team vs expansion team bad. There's absolutely no amount of sugar-coating or excuse making that can even begin to make last night's performance palatable.

 

[Redleaf]

So you don't think it's fair to say Toronto had a bad 'possession game' last night because Detroit is much better at holding onto the puck?

I mean, if one team is better at keeping possession of the puck than the other doesn't it go without saying that the other team won't have it as much as they usually do, and the numbers would reflect that?

There's absolutely no amount of sugar-coating or excuse making that can even begin to make last night's performance palatable.

Except, I guess, the 'W'. 

 

[Kin]

It's the extent to which is happened. If the Wings had a possession rating between 55-60%, then, yeah, you can explain a lot of the difference away with the difference in talent and the rest of the circumstances. The problem is that Detroit had an even-strength corsi rating of 74%. That represents much more than the difference between a rested Wings and a tired Leafs. That's the 3rd highest corsi rating any team has had in over 400 NHL games this season.

I don't have the list of which teams did worse in a game but Buffalo, Carolina and Edmonton this season have played 84 games and in, I'd wager, at minimum 75 of those games were ones where the other team was significantly better talent wise. They've also played back to backs.

The Leafs, excepting Reimer, just took a great big dump on the ice last night. The fact that this is a subject of contention....