Official Armchair GM Thread 2014-2015 Leafs

[BlueWhiteBlood]

And you know what, I wouldn't be so hard on Clarkson in this instance if he went out and pounded the living daylights out of John Scott. But all he was able to do was yell at him from a few feet closer.

Yeah, this part is the thorn for me also. It was a dumb decision even though I know he was trying to make his mark with his new team, but it was even dumber to jump off the bench and accomplish nothing.

 

[Kin]

If it were a schoolyard fight, for instance, and you knew you would get suspended from school for jumping in and sticking up for your friend who was attacked by the schoolyard bully, as a parent, I'd have a hard time telling my kid he was wrong to do it.

All that analogy really does is highlight the many ways this was not a schoolyard fight.

 

[Redleaf]

If it were a schoolyard fight, for instance, and you knew you would get suspended from school for jumping in and sticking up for your friend who was attacked by the schoolyard bully, as a parent, I'd have a hard time telling my kid he was wrong to do it.

There were 4 other guys willing to stick up for Kessel on the ice already. 5 if you count Bernier. I'm sure to a man every single player on the bench wanted to jump on the ice too at that point but they weren't dumb enough to do it. If anything Clarkson's decision was just selfish.

And you know what, I wouldn't be so hard on Clarkson in this instance if he went out and pounded the living daylights out of John Scott. But all he was able to do was yell at him from a few feet closer.

That's a fair point. Like I said there are differing opinions about that incident. I see both sides of the argument.

 

[Redleaf]

If it were a schoolyard fight, for instance, and you knew you would get suspended from school for jumping in and sticking up for your friend who was attacked by the schoolyard bully, as a parent, I'd have a hard time telling my kid he was wrong to do it.

All that analogy really does is highlight the many ways this was not a schoolyard fight.

It's not the best analogy. If you have better one, feel free to share.

The point remains though. I'd have a hard time, if I were coach Carlyle or Leaf management, being angry at Clarkson for doing what he did.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It's not the best analogy. If you have better one, feel free to share.

Honestly I'd say it's more like after a school yard fight while the situation is being disfused by teachers and fellow students and one of the onelookers jumps in from the surrounding circle and starts trying to get things going again.

It's not like Kessel was being ganged up on and nobody else was standing up for him.

 

[Redleaf]

It's not the best analogy. If you have better one, feel free to share.

Honestly I'd say it's more like after a school yard fight while the situation is being disfused by teachers and fellow students and one of the onelookers jumps in from the surrounding circle and starts trying to get things going again.

It's not like Kessel was being ganged up on and nobody else was standing up for him.

Fair enough.

 

[Bullfrog]

Willingness to stand up for somebody and leadership are quite different things.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Willingness to stand up for somebody and leadership are quite different things.

And even "willingness to stand up for somebody" doesn't exactly describe what Clarkson did. Again I'd guess every single one of the Leafs on the bench would have stood up for Kessel if they could have.

 

[moon111]

One of the biggest problems I see when you give a player a whole lot of cash, is sometimes they think they have to earn it.  When the whole reason for the cash outlay is GM stupidity in free agent signings.  They want to be loved like Wendel Clark.  Darcy Tucker went overboard.  Mike Komisarek initially went overboard.  Clarkson went overboard.  These guys just needed to settle down into their game and play within their means.  Some of this might be the coaching, which needs to talk to guys like Burns did with Clark, telling him not fight unless...  And you see Gilmour get steam-rolled by McSorley in the playoffs. 

"CLARK IS NAILING MCSORLEY!" ...best hockey ever, IMHO.

Clark showed leadership.  Sometimes it's not the action, but the timing.  If you really think about this, what really made it special was the restraint prior to this fight.  With Clarkson, I know it was Kessel and all, but this was pre-season.  It wasn't the playoffs, it wasn't time to go to war yet.  I don't like staged fights, don't like lunatic fighting as much as possible.  Well timed, well executed, for the right reason... that's leadership.  I love that Phaneuf shows allot of restraint, but honestly his fight card makes me think there's no passion and the only reason he goes is for strictly selfish reasons.

 

[Kin]

It's not the best analogy. If you have better one, feel free to share.

The point remains though. I'd have a hard time, if I were coach Carlyle or Leaf management, being angry at Clarkson for doing what he did.

I don't think you need to reduce it to an analogy at all. We all understand the ins and outs of hockey and hockey fightin'.

And in that context it was a really dumb thing to do. If I'm Leafs management I sure as heck am not happy that my big free agent acquisition got suspended for the first 10 games of the season, regardless of why. Those first 10 games are pretty important for a new player getting acclimatized to his new linemates. I wouldn't go so far as to blame Clarkson's lousy season on the suspension but it sure didn't help.

If I'm Carlyle, I'm still upset for not only the above reason but also I think he very much wants to maintain bench discipline and have it be known that whatever "standing up for Kessel" needed to happen would happen with him tapping someone(Orr preferably) on the shoulder the next time they saw Scott on the ice.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Some free agents still available that could help the team in the interim ...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2128112-where-toronto-maple-leafs-can-still-turn-for-help-in-2014-offseason

 

[L K]

IMO. Other then being a stupid call on Clarkson's decision to jump off the bench to begin with. I imagine that most fans here thought he showed leadership standing up for Kessel.

If you were to view a guy jumping off the bench to fight someone as leadership that is an interesting definition of leadership.  Hitting things isn't the definition of leadership.  It certainly means that Clarkson was willing to fight for Kessel but that isn't the sign of a strong voice in the dressing room.  Especially when combined with the decidedly poor effort during the rest of the year.

 

[bustaheims]

If you were to view a guy jumping off the bench to fight someone as leadership that is an interesting definition of leadership.  Hitting things isn't the definition of leadership.  It certainly means that Clarkson was willing to fight for Kessel but that isn't the sign of a strong voice in the dressing room.  Especially when combined with the decidedly poor effort during the rest of the year.

On top of that, if your leadership is making that kind of blatantly poor decision, you have a leadership problem.

 

[hockeyfan1]

IMO. Other then being a stupid call on Clarkson's decision to jump off the bench to begin with. I imagine that most fans here thought he showed leadership standing up for Kessel. 

Is that why all the best leaders do it so often?

 Unless bench-clearing are once again allowable, then they'd all be doing it.

Standing up for someone is important, but the way it is done is equally important.  Clarkson's way (jumping off the bench) wasn't the correct thing or way to do, unless Kessel was being pummelled to death literally. (Egads, no!!).

Clarkson could have shown leadership by fighting Scott ahead of time or beforehand, to give Scott the 'message'.  It would have been a courageous thing to do to take on a hulking guy like Scott, but it would have been worth it.

Getting suspended ten games for the opening season was a completely wasted move.  Clarkson should have been on the ice instead on opening night onward, with his new team, familiarizing himself with his linemates, blending in, not sitting in the press box having been suspended on account of poor decision-making on his part during an exibition game.

Tough to forget those actions exacerbated by Clarkson's poor showing during the season.

It's not what I expected from Clarkson.

 

[Rebel_1812]

We do have incidents when Clarkson should his good character.  I bet the locker room loved him after he left the bench to help kessel.

agreed.

Oh please tell me this is all clever sarcasm.

Sarcasm?

Clever?

Bueller?

Jokes?

 

[Britishbulldog]

I can't remember if I brought this up as I have been crazy busy the last 6 weeks.  I keep wondering how good Gardiner will be. I see ability but not a full package like Rielly is already showing even though Gardiner is 4 years older than Rielly.  I don't know if Gardiner can get it all together to hit his potential ceiling.

If Phaneuf is here for 8 more years as a LH dman and Rielly should be with Toronto at least another 15 years as a LH dman.  With that giving 2 top LH dmen for many years, is it crazy to move Gardiner for a 30 goal scorer like E Kane if he is truly available? Some expect that if Kane can hit his potential ceiling that he will be a annual 40 goal scorer.  It would solidify the top 6 until Nylander is ready to step in for Lupul.

Kane is a few months younger than Gardiner, Holland and Ashton as the package going to Winnipeg.  I think that is generous as a Leaf package and with Rielly, Kadri and Frattin on the Leafs roster, it won't as much.

I put the Finns together on the 3rd line and the Florida/Vancouver line mates together on the 4th line.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER


FORWARDS

James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Tyler Bozak ($4.200m) / Phil Kessel ($8.000m)
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Evander Kane ($5.250m)
Leo Komarov ($2.950m) / Petri Kontiola ($1.100m) / David Clarkson ($5.250m)
David Booth ($1.100m) / Mike Santorelli ($1.500m) / Matt Frattin ($0.800m)
Trevor Smith ($0.550m) / Troy Bodie ($0.600m)​

DEFENSEMEN

Dion Phaneuf ($7.000m) / Stephane Robidas ($3.000m)
Morgan Rielly ($0.894m) / Cody Franson ($3.300m)
AHL Player ($0.875m) / Roman Polak ($2.750m)
AHL Player ($0.788m)​

GOALTENDERS

Jonathan Bernier ($2.900m)
James Reimer ($2.100m)​

BUYOUTS
Mike Komisarek ($0.000m)
Mikhail Grabovski ($0.000m)
Tim Gleason ($0.833m)

RETAINED SALARIES (0.29% of upper limit)
Carl Gunnarsson ($0.200m?6.35%)
BONUS OVERAGE
$450,000
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)

SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,790,000; BONUSES: $1,062,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $210,000

 

[Bullfrog]

Some expect that if Kane can hit his potential ceiling that he will be a annual 40 goal scorer.  It would solidify the top 6 until Nylander is ready to step in for Lupul.

As per wikipedia standards, where's the citation for the "some" who expect that?

That's puts him in some elite company with Ovechkin, Stamkos, and maybe Perry and Gaborik? and possibly Kessel in the future.

 

[Kin]

A winger who can score 30 goals is among the very last pieces I'd be trading significant assets for. The Leafs have three already, they shouldn't be making themselves weaker at other positions to find a fourth.

 

[bustaheims]

Some expect that if Kane can hit his potential ceiling that he will be a annual 40 goal scorer.  It would solidify the top 6 until Nylander is ready to step in for Lupul.

As per wikipedia standards, where's the citation for the "some" who expect that?

That's puts him in some elite company with Ovechkin, Stamkos, and maybe Perry and Gaborik? and possibly Kessel in the future.

Yeah, I don't see it. He's much closer to being a similar player to Lupul than he is to any of the players you've mentioned. Maybe a touch better, but not on the elite kind of level that's being speculated here.

 

[TML fan]

It's not the best analogy. If you have better one, feel free to share.

The point remains though. I'd have a hard time, if I were coach Carlyle or Leaf management, being angry at Clarkson for doing what he did.

I don't think you need to reduce it to an analogy at all. We all understand the ins and outs of hockey and hockey fightin'.

And in that context it was a really dumb thing to do. If I'm Leafs management I sure as heck am not happy that my big free agent acquisition got suspended for the first 10 games of the season, regardless of why. Those first 10 games are pretty important for a new player getting acclimatized to his new linemates. I wouldn't go so far as to blame Clarkson's lousy season on the suspension but it sure didn't help.

If I'm Carlyle, I'm still upset for not only the above reason but also I think he very much wants to maintain bench discipline and have it be known that whatever "standing up for Kessel" needed to happen would happen with him tapping someone(Orr preferably) on the shoulder the next time they saw Scott on the ice.

The Leafs just couldn't wait that long!