Official Armchair GM Thread 2014-2015 Leafs

[Kin]

Moulson for Vanek??

Neither team included more than one NHL player.

 

[Kin]

I would imagine the Seguin-Eriksson deal would be the closest you'd get to what you're looking for. Each side got one major piece plus at least one other NHL player.

Well again, it's not so much the scope of the trade in total or the balance of it so much as it is a team trading two significant(as in all-star or near-all star) players at the same time in one deal. So, for instance, the Red Wings trading Keith Primeau and Paul Coffey for Shanahan.

Anyways, I don't mean to get bogged down in it but the reason I think what the Leafs traded for Phaneuf fits better than anything I've seen mentioned is that I think there's generally a sense that if a team has two assets that they could trade individually for a significant return then they're much more inclined to auction them separately. Obviously none of White, Hagman or Stajan were all-stars but they were all NHL players who, if traded individually, would have had multiple teams interested in them. I've often argued that the Leafs would have been better off doing that, collecting significant picks in the process, than trading for Phaneuf.

And that leads to the problem with a trade like the one we're talking about. As soon as you start trying to balance it so that it's "fair" you start having to ask yourself why either team would actually do it if it doesn't seem to significantly alter their make-up or improve their chances. Even in BBD's original design, the Leafs wouldn't really have a better team, just a different one.

 

[sneakyray]

you guys are forgetting the phaneuf deal...stajan, white, mayers and hagman for phaneuf, sjostrom and aulie. (edit: need to read before posting I guess)

also, beauchemin for lupul and gardiner.

 

[Kin]

you guys are forgetting the phaneuf deal...stajan, white, mayers and hagman for phaneuf, sjostrom and aulie. (edit: need to read before posting I guess)

Also, it doesn't really qualify as none of the pieces on the Leafs side were seen as JVR/Phaneuf level talent.

also, beauchemin for lupul and gardiner.

Well, that doesn't fit in any way. Gardiner hadn't played in the NHL, Lupul was seen as an injury throw-in and Beauchemin, while seen as a solid player, was in no way an all-star.

 

[jonlleafs]

I'd imagine a realistic deal would more likely involve JVR instead of Lupul and a pretty decent pick coming from the Leafs.

Can't see how Leafs would have to give up JVR, a more established, , cheaper, less headace'y version of Kane.  At worst, that would be a straight up 1 for 1 trade, but still feels like the Leafs take on all the risk with not a lot of upside above what JVR already brings.

I like Kane and I would love to take him on, but the price can't be basically a better version of Kane to get him.

Well the original trade idea I was responding to involved Bufuglien and Stuart coming back for Phaneuf, Holland and Ashton.

I think Buf is better and cheaper than Dion and I don't think the difference is made up by Holland and Ashton, thus why I said something more valuable would need to be included to get the deal done.

Maybe not JVR, maybe just a high pick, but I wouldn't make the proposed deal if I was the WPG GM.

You make that trade and all we'll hear all summer and training camp is how out of shape Buff is.  It never ends. 

 

[Corn Flake]

You make that trade and all we'll hear all summer and training camp is how out of shape Buff is.  It never ends.

Yeah I can hear the jokes now about Kessel vs. Buff in a sumo match to see who is bigger.

 

[Crucialness Key]

You make that trade and all we'll hear all summer and training camp is how out of shape Buff is.  It never ends.

Yeah I can hear the jokes now about Kessel vs. Buff in a sumo match to see who is bigger.

KYLE WELLWOOD HAR HAR HAR

 

[Britishbulldog]

I would imagine the Seguin-Eriksson deal would be the closest you'd get to what you're looking for. Each side got one major piece plus at least one other NHL player.

Well again, it's not so much the scope of the trade in total or the balance of it so much as it is a team trading two significant(as in all-star or near-all star) players at the same time in one deal. So, for instance, the Red Wings trading Keith Primeau and Paul Coffey for Shanahan.

Even in BBD's original design, the Leafs wouldn't really have a better team, just a different one.

That's a fair assessment Nik.

 

[Britishbulldog]

After Nik discussed the rarity that star caliber hockey players get traded for each other I was thinking about the other new reality that looms every transaction which is the salary cap.  So even though it is fun to fantasize unrealistic trades of star players or comparable players with similar salaries like '87 Kessel $8.0 for '90 Stamkos $7.5, or my infamous WPG Jets trade of Lupul, Phaneuf and garbage (Bozak??) for Kane, Byfuglien and Stuart APPEAR to work on paper financially but it doesn't take into account next years Leaf free agents.

At forward the Leafs have committed to 6 forwards for extended contracts: Kessel, Lupul, Clarkson, JVR, Bozak and Komarov.  The Leafs also have Phaneuf, Gardiner and Robidas signed for 3 years or more.

The thing is that next season Kadri and Bernier need to re-sign as well possibly Franson depending how his season goes.  Add to that Gleason's buyout which increases $1 MIL.

Assuming that Kadri gets E Kane and Lupul money of $5.25 MIL and Bernier gets Mike Smith and Jimmy Howard money of $6.0 MIL the Leafs have increased their budget $6.45 (including Gleason's BO).  If Franson plays consistenly, gets the points he realistically could and plays strong physically (not punishing, just strong) then I feel that the Leafs could try to lock him up for a few years which would probably take $4.5 MIL.

Soooo....to simply keep the current Leafs roster to compete for a Cup against LA, Anaheim, Chicago, etc the Leafs could need the cap to increase to $78 MIL from this years $69 MIL which is a bit unrealistic.  There really isn't any crazy Jeff Finger or Komisarek style contracts on the Leafs to dump to make space either except Clarkson and I don't think he is going anywhere.

 

[caver]

I think a guy like Adam McQuaid would be a nice addition. Another defenceman and a capable tough guy. Send Orr and Mclaren down...

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'm confident that Lupul is probably going to be shopped behind the scenes, as his position could probably be filled by Leivo very shortly. That's probably where they find the extra scratch for the new contracts for Kadri and Bernier.

I'm less sure that Lupul gets traded as part of a larger deal that includes more Leaf assets though.

 

[Crucialness Key]

I'm confident that Lupul is probably going to be shopped behind the scenes, as his position could probably be filled by Leivo very shortly. That's probably where they find the extra scratch for the new contracts for Kadri and Bernier.

I'm less sure that Lupul gets traded as part of a larger deal that includes more Leaf assets though.

(1) Trade Lupul & Leivo for All-Star Winger (ASW)
(2) Next season the 2nd line is ASW-Kadri-Nylander
(3) Dump Franson to help create Kadri/Bernier $$$
(4) crush opposition

 

[LuncheonMeat]

From Friedman's most recent 30 Thoughts column:

6. Like Vancouver with Markstrom, Toronto has asked around about Carter Ashton, trying to see if they can get a pick instead of going though the waiver route.

Sounds like Ashton is either a career AHL'er or maybe gets a shot somewhere else? 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

From Friedman's most recent 30 Thoughts column:

6. Like Vancouver with Markstrom, Toronto has asked around about Carter Ashton, trying to see if they can get a pick instead of going though the waiver route.

Sounds like Ashton is either a career AHL'er or maybe gets a shot somewhere else?

Almost guaranteed to get better linemates anywhere else if he gets a shot.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'm confident that Lupul is probably going to be shopped behind the scenes, as his position could probably be filled by Leivo very shortly. That's probably where they find the extra scratch for the new contracts for Kadri and Bernier.

I'm less sure that Lupul gets traded as part of a larger deal that includes more Leaf assets though.

(1) Trade Lupul & Leivo for All-Star Winger (ASW)
(2) Next season the 2nd line is ASW-Kadri-Nylander
(3) Dump Franson to help create Kadri/Bernier $$$
(4) crush opposition

Not really keen on giving up Leivo. I don't believe we could get an All-Star winger for those two either. I'd do it if we could, but I don't see it happening.

We'd have to take salary back in a Lupul deal, but we also may be able to save a little bit also.

 

[Crucialness Key]

I'm confident that Lupul is probably going to be shopped behind the scenes, as his position could probably be filled by Leivo very shortly. That's probably where they find the extra scratch for the new contracts for Kadri and Bernier.

I'm less sure that Lupul gets traded as part of a larger deal that includes more Leaf assets though.

(1) Trade Lupul & Leivo for All-Star Winger (ASW)
(2) Next season the 2nd line is ASW-Kadri-Nylander
(3) Dump Franson to help create Kadri/Bernier $$$
(4) crush opposition

Not really keen on giving up Leivo. I don't believe we could get an All-Star winger for those two either. I'd do it if we could, but I don't see it happening.

We'd have to take salary back in a Lupul deal, but we also may be able to save a little bit also.

Oh I don't want to give up Leivo either, but trades where you give up ONLY stuff you don't want rarely happen.  And yeah, to get an ASW we might have to add some more parts (perhaps Nilsson or some such)... or catch the other team in a moment of weakness  8)

 

[Corn Flake]

Remember guys, you have to give to get.

Give to get.

Give.
To.
Get.

 

[bustaheims]

Remember guys, you have to give to get.

Give to get.

Give.
To.
Get.

Sure, but that all depends on what you're getting, and, really, adding Leivo to Lupul likely only gets you a marginal upgrade on Lupul.

 

[Crucialness Key]

Remember guys, you have to give to get.

Give to get.

Give.
To.
Get.

Sure, but that all depends on what you're getting, and, really, adding Leivo to Lupul likely only gets you a marginal upgrade on Lupul.

NOT ONCE LEIVO STARTS TEARING UP THE WHOLE LEAGUE OH YEEAHHHH of course then we'd probably just keep Leivo.

Okay new trade, Lupul + Franson + Reimer + Kontiola + Frattin + Orr + McLaren + Ashton + Holzer + MacWilliam + Clarkson for Yakupov.  I mean, that's a lot of Giving! 

 

[bustaheims]

Okay new trade, Lupul + Franson + Reimer + Kontiola + Frattin + Orr + McLaren + Ashton + Holzer + MacWilliam + Clarkson for Yakupov.  I mean, that's a lot of Giving! 

Nope. MacWilliam is a deal-breaker. ;D