Phil Kessel

[GhostofPotvin29]

He whines too much?

He's known for pretty much not saying anything.

Don't think I can remember a single instance of him whining.

Yeah, not sure where he would get that reputation.  If anything the guy doesn't go to the refs enough to try and get calls when he gets clipped/grabbed.

I am somewhat concerned about how he will handle playoff hockey though.  His shot is a game-breaker, but if he gets swallowed up with the tighter checking/hooking style of playoff hockey, it won't mean all that much.

He's done alright in his small sample of playoff games, but who knows, lots of great players can get shut down in a series.

 

[Champ Kind]

I know it's been said, beaten, and flogged, but boiy oh boy did Kessel ever look completely outmatched last night.  Not sure if it's a mental block, the fact that the Bruins are a tough team, or maybe that he's outright scared, but Kessel looked like a boy amongst men last night.  Love the skill he brings - when he brings it - but last night really told all there is to say, especially when you look at how Kadri and Lupul performed / excelled.

So, if Kessel lands somewhere between Semin's ($7M) and Perry's ($8.6) contract, I'm even less comfortable after what I saw last night committing to him long-term.  This is most likely a deal that has to be made in the off-season, but it's time to cash those chips out and re-deal the Kessel related deck.

 

[Corn Flake]

So, if Kessel lands somewhere between Semin's ($7M) and Perry's ($8.6) contract, I'm even less comfortable after what I saw last night committing to him long-term.  This is most likely a deal that has to be made in the off-season, but it's time to cash those chips out and re-deal the Kessel related deck.

When it's one team he can't really get it going against I don't have a problem with that. Most star players have a team or two they for whatever reason can't get it going against.  the fact it's Boston magnifies things for obvious reasons.

While I get the sentiment of moving him and cashing in the chips, here's the problem... finding someone of his ability to replace him is going to be slim to none. Yeah Kadri looks like he probably runs the offense from here on in, but if you drop Kessel and assume Kadri picks up slack, suddenly Naz is the focus of ever team's best defenders.  Kadri didn't have to deal with Chara much last night until late in the game. Kessel takes the heat of Kadri.  Also a big reason why they probably shouldn't play on the same line.

To me the only way you move Kessel is if you get a player of similar and established capability at a different position or with a skill set that is going to be a bit more effective in Carlyle's system.. such as some big power forward type.  But I don't think I would do that either to be honest.

That Semin deal pretty much sets the bar though.  No going below that for sure, IMO.

Keep Kessel and focus on finding another centre to upgrade Bozak ... need that 1-2 punch with Kadri up the middle and Grabbo on line 3 to build this team into a contender.

 

[Peter D.]

So, if Kessel lands somewhere between Semin's ($7M) and Perry's ($8.6) contract, I'm even less comfortable after what I saw last night committing to him long-term.  This is most likely a deal that has to be made in the off-season, but it's time to cash those chips out and re-deal the Kessel related deck.

It's weird -- I think the Leafs have to keep Kessel and give him at least the $7M he will command.  But if he were with another team hitting the open market, I don't know if I'd feel comfortable giving him that type of money.  :-\

 

[Redleaf]

So, if Kessel lands somewhere between Semin's ($7M) and Perry's ($8.6) contract, I'm even less comfortable after what I saw last night committing to him long-term.  This is most likely a deal that has to be made in the off-season, but it's time to cash those chips out and re-deal the Kessel related deck.

When it's one team he can't really get it going against I don't have a problem with that. Most star players have a team or two they for whatever reason can't get it going against.  the fact it's Boston magnifies things for obvious reasons.

While I get the sentiment of moving him and cashing in the chips, here's the problem... finding someone of his ability to replace him is going to be slim to none. Yeah Kadri looks like he probably runs the offense from here on in, but if you drop Kessel and assume Kadri picks up slack, suddenly Naz is the focus of ever team's best defenders.  Kadri didn't have to deal with Chara much last night until late in the game. Kessel takes the heat of Kadri.  Also a big reason why they probably shouldn't play on the same line.

To me the only way you move Kessel is if you get a player of similar and established capability at a different position or with a skill set that is going to be a bit more effective in Carlyle's system.. such as some big power forward type.  But I don't think I would do that either to be honest.

That Semin deal pretty much sets the bar though.  No going below that for sure, IMO.

Keep Kessel and focus on finding another centre to upgrade Bozak ... need that 1-2 punch with Kadri up the middle and Grabbo on line 3 to build this team into a contender.

Pretty much how I see it. Although, I might be a bit more inclined to move him for a big power forward more to Carlyle's liking (if one ever becomes available), but we do have Colborne coming up the ranks. Hopefully he can fill that role someday.

 

[Bullfrog]

I wouldn't call Colborne a power forward at all. He's big sure, but I'd say even JvR is more of a power forward than him.

 

[Redleaf]

I wouldn't call Colborne a power forward at all. He's big sure, but I'd say even JvR is more of a power forward than him.

I haven't seen him enough I guess. If that's the case then, I'd be on the lookout to try and acquire someone else who fits that role. How much better would this group look with a Getzlaf type player?

 

[Champ Kind]

So, if Kessel lands somewhere between Semin's ($7M) and Perry's ($8.6) contract, I'm even less comfortable after what I saw last night committing to him long-term.  This is most likely a deal that has to be made in the off-season, but it's time to cash those chips out and re-deal the Kessel related deck.

When it's one team he can't really get it going against I don't have a problem with that. Most star players have a team or two they for whatever reason can't get it going against.  the fact it's Boston magnifies things for obvious reasons.

You know though, what happens with Kessel against Boston is more than just not getting going.  There's a level of intimidation - fear? - that seems so apparent to me.  I don't think it's an excagerration when I say that he didn't win a single puck battle last night.  Even on Saturday night, when Kessel 'blocked' the Chara point shot - he was trying to jump out of the way and mistimed it, late in the third period!  Seeing the way Kadri went at Chara is really the basis for my argument: Kessel just doesn't have what it takes to lead the team, talented though he is.

Moving Kessel changes the complexion of the team, the focus.  But this change, in my opinion, wouldn't be a bad thing.  Give the reigns to Lupul - Kadri.  I would also hazard a guess that moving Kessel doesn't hurt the chemistry or makeup of the team.  It's a refocus.

And granted, you don't get back a player of equal value.  I would hope there's a small nuggest to be mined in the 2013 UFA crop, and then you take the 2-3 pieces Kessel would net and, hopefully, the unit as a whole is improved.

 

[Andy007]

Kessel is playing with a small 3rd line-level centre and an inconsistent young forward; neither of which are really playmakers. It's not difficult, from an opposing team's standpoint, to shut down that line. The fact that Kessel still is around a point per game, for the 2nd season in a row, is astounding, imho. It's sad  that we haven't been able to see Kessel play with top level talent and I don't think we accurately can assess Kessel's full ability until we see him with quality players on a regular basis.

 

[Jalili]

You know though, what happens with Kessel against Boston is more than just not getting going.  There's a level of intimidation - fear? - that seems so apparent to me.  I don't think it's an excagerration when I say that he didn't win a single puck battle last night.  Even on Saturday night, when Kessel 'blocked' the Chara point shot - he was trying to jump out of the way and mistimed it, late in the third period!  Seeing the way Kadri went at Chara is really the basis for my argument: Kessel just doesn't have what it takes to lead the team, talented though he is.

Moving Kessel changes the complexion of the team, the focus.  But this change, in my opinion, wouldn't be a bad thing.  Give the reigns to Lupul - Kadri.  I would also hazard a guess that moving Kessel doesn't hurt the chemistry or makeup of the team.  It's a refocus.

And granted, you don't get back a player of equal value.  I would hope there's a small nuggest to be mined in the 2013 UFA crop, and then you take the 2-3 pieces Kessel would net and, hopefully, the unit as a whole is improved.

Boston psychologically owns Kessel. They've gotten in his head bad enough that it seems like he's shell shocked from facing a mental onslaught against them. Maybe it's something a sports psychologist could help him with?

I'd move Kessel for a lesser player if that player was a big sized center but I don't think another team would have any of that.

You just gotta hope that Kessel and his agent don't hold Nonis' feet to the fire when they negotiate for an extension.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Kessel is playing with a small 3rd line-level centre and an inconsistent young forward; neither of which are really playmakers. It's not difficult, from an opposing team's standpoint, to shut down that line. The fact that Kessel still is around a point per game, for the 2nd season in a row, is astounding, imho. It's sad  that we haven't been able to see Kessel play with top level talent and I don't think we accurately can assess Kessel's full ability until we see him with quality players on a regular basis.

One thing I noticed during last night's game was that his linemates haven't really been able to help Kessel out against Boston.  Kessel obviously shoulders blame for struggling offensively against Boston, but I noticed a number of times where he was open and had space and they couldn't get the puck to him.  The good thing now is that we don't need to rely solely on his line, but it would help if Kessel didn't have to do almost everything on that line right now.

 

[Corn Flake]

So, if Kessel lands somewhere between Semin's ($7M) and Perry's ($8.6) contract, I'm even less comfortable after what I saw last night committing to him long-term.  This is most likely a deal that has to be made in the off-season, but it's time to cash those chips out and re-deal the Kessel related deck.

When it's one team he can't really get it going against I don't have a problem with that. Most star players have a team or two they for whatever reason can't get it going against.  the fact it's Boston magnifies things for obvious reasons.

You know though, what happens with Kessel against Boston is more than just not getting going.  There's a level of intimidation - fear? - that seems so apparent to me.  I don't think it's an excagerration when I say that he didn't win a single puck battle last night.  Even on Saturday night, when Kessel 'blocked' the Chara point shot - he was trying to jump out of the way and mistimed it, late in the third period!  Seeing the way Kadri went at Chara is really the basis for my argument: Kessel just doesn't have what it takes to lead the team, talented though he is.

Moving Kessel changes the complexion of the team, the focus.  But this change, in my opinion, wouldn't be a bad thing.  Give the reigns to Lupul - Kadri.  I would also hazard a guess that moving Kessel doesn't hurt the chemistry or makeup of the team.  It's a refocus.

And granted, you don't get back a player of equal value.  I would hope there's a small nuggest to be mined in the 2013 UFA crop, and then you take the 2-3 pieces Kessel would net and, hopefully, the unit as a whole is improved.

But he doesn't need to be the leader just becuase he's being paid the most. Clearly he's not going to be that guy on this team. To me it's just like the Semin deal.. Semin isn't going to lead that team - he's paid to be a high end offensive player, plain and simple.  Yes Lupul and Kadri are probably the core of the offense but you need more than just that.  hopefully Grabbo as well. JVR and Frattin may step in but will be secondary guys, kind of like Kessel in terms of "clutch" play.

Kadri going after Chara vs. ducking him tells you all you need to know about what he's going to bring vs. guys like that.

 

[ZBBM]

You know though, what happens with Kessel against Boston is more than just not getting going.  There's a level of intimidation - fear? - that seems so apparent to me.  I don't think it's an excagerration when I say that he didn't win a single puck battle last night.  Even on Saturday night, when Kessel 'blocked' the Chara point shot - he was trying to jump out of the way and mistimed it, late in the third period!  Seeing the way Kadri went at Chara is really the basis for my argument: Kessel just doesn't have what it takes to lead the team, talented though he is.

Moving Kessel changes the complexion of the team, the focus.  But this change, in my opinion, wouldn't be a bad thing.  Give the reigns to Lupul - Kadri.  I would also hazard a guess that moving Kessel doesn't hurt the chemistry or makeup of the team.  It's a refocus.

And granted, you don't get back a player of equal value.  I would hope there's a small nuggest to be mined in the 2013 UFA crop, and then you take the 2-3 pieces Kessel would net and, hopefully, the unit as a whole is improved.

Boston psychologically owns Kessel. They've gotten in his head bad enough that it seems like he's shell shocked from facing a mental onslaught against them. Maybe it's something a sports psychologist could help him with?

I'd move Kessel for a lesser player if that player was a big sized center but I don't think another team would have any of that.

You just gotta hope that Kessel and his agent don't hold Nonis' feet to the fire when they negotiate for an extension.

Kessel is fatally flawed when it comes to the single most important quality a hockey player can have: the desire to do whatever it takes to win.  He doesn't have it, and never will.

His superior release and excellent passing ability are his 2 calling cards.  They are outstanding.  But after that, he is less than average in all aspects of the game.

He is at best a secondary piece, not the centerpiece, of any team that aims to be a perennial playoff team and contender.

If I were Nonis I would listen to offers for him this trade deadline.  We are not going to win the Cup this year anyway even if we do make the playoffs, so I would be looking 2-3 years down the road.  I'd build the team around Kadri and Lupul, not Kessel.

 

[caver]

I would listen to offers on Kessel and Phanuef this trade deadline.

 

[Stronger Than All]

I would have put Kessel out in that shootout last night.  At least give him a chance to stick it to his old team.

 

[Corn Flake]

I would listen to offers on Kessel and Phanuef this trade deadline.

So would you trade them for a package of picks and prospects then if it was some really good (but typical of those types of deals) offer?

Assuming yes, you are suggesting that just when this team finally has young players we've waited patiently to develop and step in and around them, you would reset the clock on Kessel & Phaneuf, thus bascially setting the rebuild back another 3-5 years while we wait for the return on those two guys to do what Kadri, Gardiner, etc are doing now?  The team record as a whole would take a gigantic leap backwards if you did that.  I think we are crazy to think that you can remove those two, hand their roles to young players and expect same or better results immediately.  IMO we would get the results we've had in the 3-4 previous years all over again.

Look, I get that Kessel and Phaneuf aren't perfect, but I've been saying for several years now that this team was going to start taking real steps when the kids that were acquired over the last 4-5 years started stepping into legit roles and making an impact... and they are just now doing that.

 

[Peter D.]

He is at best a secondary piece, not the centerpiece, of any team that aims to be a perennial playoff team and contender.

I completely agree with this, but this is no fault of his own.  Unfortunately for Kessel, the trade that brought him here and the fact he doesn't have someone else to insulate him/take away the spotlight does not do him any favours.  Again, that is not on him.

Kessel is what he is -- a sniper who will get you at least 35 goals and nearly a point per game.  He will not run over guys, he will not get "dirty", he won't be confused as a Selke candidate, it's unlikely he will take this team on his back and carry it -- it's not the type of player he is, and that's okay.  As long as he puts up the points, it doesn't matter.  It is a concern that if he isn't scoring he is nearly invisible, but one hopes those stretches are minimized as he matures and grows as a player.

I believe the argument that he was the right player but at the wrong type is completely valid.  But when drafting up a championship calibre roster, a player like Kessel is needed.  We have that already.  It's up to Nonis to do what Burke couldn't do and bring in that piece in which Kessel complements nicely.  Kadri may be that guy, but I'd rather another guy be brought in in which we can run two legitimate scoring pairing threats (XXX-Kessel, Kadri-Lupul).         

 

[Coco-puffs]

Kessel is fatally flawed when it comes to the single most important quality a hockey player can have: the desire to do whatever it takes to win.  He doesn't have it, and never will.

His superior release and excellent passing ability are his 2 calling cards.  They are outstanding.  But after that, he is less than average in all aspects of the game.

He is at best a secondary piece, not the centerpiece, of any team that aims to be a perennial playoff team and contender.

If I were Nonis I would listen to offers for him this trade deadline.  We are not going to win the Cup this year anyway even if we do make the playoffs, so I would be looking 2-3 years down the road.  I'd build the team around Kadri and Lupul, not Kessel.

I agree with most of what you said... he doesn't seem to have that killer instinct, which relegates him to secondary piece status.  At the same time, we want great secondary pieces to be a true contender. 

I see Kadri and Lupul and the foundation for a great 1st line, that needs someone more well rounded than Kessel flanking them (I don't mind Kulemin there, especially if he continues to produce the way he has in the last few games).  Kessel on the 2nd line would be fantastic.  The only problem with that is, do we want to pay someone 7+ million to be on our second line?  That is the only problem I have with Kessel being on this team long term- I want him on the 2nd line, at a cap hit under 6 million.

The fact that he's going to command more than that is why you shop him.  But if the returns are just a combination of average NHLer's, late 1st round picks, or mid-level prospects, I'd still rather keep him unless we run into Cap problems.  If we can make a talent for talent trade, then I'm all for it. 

I also think we should start shopping him in this offseason, not at this years deadline.  Talent for talent deals happen in the offseason, not at the trade deadline. 

 

[lamajama]

He is at best a secondary piece, not the centerpiece, of any team that aims to be a perennial playoff team and contender.

I completely agree with this, but this is no fault of his own.  Unfortunately for Kessel, the trade that brought him here and the fact he doesn't have someone else to insulate him/take away the spotlight does not do him any favours.  Again, that is not on him.

Kessel is what he is -- a sniper who will get you at least 35 goals and nearly a point per game.  He will not run over guys, he will not get "dirty", he won't be confused as a Selke candidate, it's unlikely he will take this team on his back and carry it -- it's not the type of player he is, and that's okay.  As long as he puts up the points, it doesn't matter.  It is a concern that if he isn't scoring he is nearly invisible, but one hopes those stretches are minimized as he matures and grows as a player.

I believe the argument that he was the right player but at the wrong type is completely valid.  But when drafting up a championship calibre roster, a player like Kessel is needed.  We have that already.  It's up to Nonis to do what Burke couldn't do and bring in that piece in which Kessel complements nicely.  Kadri may be that guy, but I'd rather another guy be brought in in which we can run two legitimate scoring pairing threats (XXX-Kessel, Kadri-Lupul).       

I agree 100% - and remember - he's still only 25. His best days are ahead of him. I don't know what would come back for him in a trade but it would have to be the same one-dimensional player that PK is if it's a one-for-one. If that's the case why would the other team trade for PK. If it's a multiple for PK that rarely works out. He has his flaws but we're not getting
anyone better than him for him, and he's a legitimate sniper. If we can ever get someone to take the heat down on him we'd be off and running.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

His superior release and excellent passing ability are his 2 calling cards.  They are outstanding.  But after that, he is less than average in all aspects of the game.

Pretty sure his skating is above average.