Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

[CarltonTheBear]

Though this season so far it's been:

@jonasTSN1050  Jan 19

Though he prefers LW, Joffrey Lupul has actually been more productive at RW this season. 16 pts in 23 games at RW vs. 9 pts in 17 gms at LW.

I wonder which games Siegel says Lupul played right wing on. Just from my own memory, the only time Lupul played right wing was when he was paired with Raymond in December/January. Before that his other wingers were typically Kulemin and Clarkson, who are both right wingers.

Going through the game logs at extra skater, it looks like Carlyle paired Lupul with Raymond on Dec. 13th against the Blackhawks. That pairing then stayed together until the Montreal game. That's just 15 games. I'm not sure where the other 8 came from.

But if we just look at that stretch as his time on the right wing, here are the results:

RW: 15 GP - 10 PTS - .66 PPG
LW: 26 GP - 17 PTS - .65 PPG

Pretty much dead even. As a right-winger he's been held off the score sheet 10 times (.625) and as a left -winger he's been pointless 14 times (.538). Again, pretty close but a slight edge to him on the LW.

A better exercise though would be to see what his LW/RW splits looked like at just even-strength, as that's really where this is important. On the powerplay Lupul typically plays the left wing even with Raymond because it puts them both in a one-timer position. But I can't find a game log that displays that information easily.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I guess that wasn't that hard:

RW: 7 EV 15 GP (.466)
LW: 11 EV 26 GP (.423)

Again, pretty close.

 

[TML fan]

Carlyle's philosophy of dressing players to sit on the bench is really starting to grind my gears. I've never despised a coach like I despise Carlyle.

 

[Stickytape]

Carlyle's philosophy of dressing players to sit on the bench is really starting to grind my gears. I've never despised a coach like I despise Carlyle.

You wouldn't think I'd have any complaints during a 5-game winning streak, but, well, here I am.

So here's the situation: You're going into a 4-game road trip, starting with back-to-back, late starts, the second of which is against Colorado.  You're up 3-0 after only 25 minutes.  Sounds like a good time to stretch the bench out, let the 4th line play a little, right?

lolnope.  Seven players (Phaneuf, Franson, Gleason, Lupul, Gunnarson, Kulemin, and Bozak) had 20+ minutes.  Meanwhile, Colton Orr (who got in zero fights, by the way) played 2:11, and Carter Ashton (who had a breakaway and an assist!) played 2:01.

The 3rd line (Raymond Holland Bodie) averaged 9:20 at even strength, and the 4th line (Ashton McClement Orr) averaged 3:48.

I mean, yay, they won, despite resorting to Carlyle's "flop on your back and kick your feet and punch the air and scream for help until the bully gets tired and goes away" defensive style that saw them get outshot 14-29 in the last two periods.  But why do it like this?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

A few positives from the last few games:

@SteveBurtch

The #Leafs have outshot the opposition when the game is within striking distance in the last 3 gp.

@SteveBurtch

The totals over the last 3 GP are 65-50... #progress

 

[CarltonTheBear]

... and Carter Ashton (who had a breakaway and an assist!) played 2:01.

I only caught the game in 6. This just made me think that I probably saw all of Ashton's shifts.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

... and Carter Ashton (who had a breakaway and an assist!) played 2:01.

I only caught the game in 6. This just made me think that I probably saw all of Ashton's shifts.

That's hilarious that the Game in 6 is almost 2 minutes longer than the combined ice-time of Ashton and Orr last night.

 

[Stickytape]

... and Carter Ashton (who had a breakaway and an assist!) played 2:01.

I only caught the game in 6. This just made me think that I probably saw all of Ashton's shifts.

That's hilarious that the Game in 6 is almost 2 minutes longer than the combined ice-time of Ashton and Orr last night.

"Game in 6" would be a good nickname for the 4th line if it wasn't such a hideous overstatement.

 

[Highlander]

I was amazed at how bumpy Franson's game is. I would bring up Brennan and trade Franson while we can get something for him.  Hold out?what a joke. Brennan has 40 points on the Marlies, 2nd on the team.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I was amazed at how bumpy Franson's game is. I would bring up Brennan and trade Franson while we can get something for him.  Hold out?what a joke. Brennan has 40 points on the Marlies, 2nd on the team.

Saying Brennan's 2nd on the team in points doesn't really do his season justice. He's 5th in the entire AHL in points. He's just above a point-per-game. For a defencemen that's very impressive even in the AHL. With that said, there's probably some reason he hasn't been called up yet. I know there's a few people who want him called up and Franson traded, but that might not be an improvement. This is from MLHS's latest Marlies report:

Brennan is such a polarizing d-man. His offensive ability is undeniable. Both his slapper and wrister are extremely dangerous, and he?s got great offensive instincts. 16G, 22A and 38 Points in 37 GP speaks to that fact. Those assets make him downright dominant on the PP, but he needs a lot of work at 5 on 5 in his own zone. He?s been paired with Marshall a lot recently at evens and they?ve been dreadful. Over the two games this week, they were on the ice together for several goals against and several grade ?A? chances against. They have both been plagued by bad turnovers, a proneness to getting lost in coverage, a tendency to take bad penalties, a failure to keep their heads on a swivel and a propensity to over-commit, exhibiting some bad positioning overall. The good news for Brennan is that these things can be improved through video work and coaching. He also isn?t shy to compete in the d-zone, where he?s not scared of confrontation. If he can just iron out the d-zone play he?s guaranteed a full-time NHL gig.  Still just 24 years of age.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Sounds like Marc-Andre Bergeron.

 

[L K]

Sounds like Marc-Andre Bergeron.

Bring him up and treat him like Andy Delmore.  Play him 5 minutes a night with exclusive PP time and only dress 11 forwards (Bench Orr).

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Bring him up and treat him like Andy Delmore.  Play him 5 minutes a night with exclusive PP time and only dress 11 forwards (Bench Orr).

If we brought him up it'd have to be as a 7th defencemen, which actually wouldn't be a bad idea. But it'll never happen of course.

 

[TML fan]

Convert him to a winger.

 

[Corn Flake]

Carlyle's philosophy of dressing players to sit on the bench is really starting to grind my gears. I've never despised a coach like I despise Carlyle.

A little perspective would be that he's nowhere close to being the only coach who does this.  Not sure why so many think that some of the approaches Carlyle uses are that unique. 

example:

Saturday's game.. Habs had Parros, Nattinen and Moen play almost identical minutes to Orr, Ashton and Bodie respectively.

 

[TML fan]

Carlyle's philosophy of dressing players to sit on the bench is really starting to grind my gears. I've never despised a coach like I despise Carlyle.

A little perspective would be that he's nowhere close to being the only coach who does this.  Not sure why so many think that some of the approaches Carlyle uses are that unique. 

example:

Saturday's game.. Habs had Parros, Nattinen and Moen play almost identical minutes to Orr, Ashton and Bodie respectively.

Carlyle coaches the Leafs, other people don't. Hence, I don't care what other people do.

 

[Kin]

It's interesting though that despite using his forwards like that Carlyle seems to want to use his defense in a far more balanced fashion. A cynic might attribute that to the Leafs not really having any defensemen capable of playing your 27+ minutes of the top minute eaters but even still.

 

[Kin]

Carlyle coaches the Leafs, other people don't. Hence, I don't care what other people do.

Although it does throw a little bit of water on someone trying to point out specific problems with the idea of using a 4th line the way Carlyle does. I mean, provided you've got a pretty good top 9, I think it's fair to say that what we've seen as hockey fans is that they're capable of playing 18-19 minutes a night at which point the idea that a 4th line should see more ice time than the bare minimum gets a little dicey.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Carlyle's philosophy of dressing players to sit on the bench is really starting to grind my gears. I've never despised a coach like I despise Carlyle.

A little perspective would be that he's nowhere close to being the only coach who does this.  Not sure why so many think that some of the approaches Carlyle uses are that unique. 

example:

Saturday's game.. Habs had Parros, Nattinen and Moen play almost identical minutes to Orr, Ashton and Bodie respectively.

But the article Mirtle did recently, reproduced on this forum when it came out, showed that only Vancouver used their 4th line less.  So while it's not unique to Carlyle (and hasn't really been presented as such that I've seen) it's still something done by him more than almost any other team.

Where do you get the idea that people who dislike this approach think it is something that is unique to Carlyle?  If you dislike a tactic, you dislike a tactic, it doesn't mean you think that the specific coach is the only coach who employs it.  It would stand to reason you would dislike it if that coach did it, but it would probably also depend on the context of that specific team.

 

[Corn Flake]

Carlyle's philosophy of dressing players to sit on the bench is really starting to grind my gears. I've never despised a coach like I despise Carlyle.

A little perspective would be that he's nowhere close to being the only coach who does this.  Not sure why so many think that some of the approaches Carlyle uses are that unique. 

example:

Saturday's game.. Habs had Parros, Nattinen and Moen play almost identical minutes to Orr, Ashton and Bodie respectively.

But the article Mirtle did recently, reproduced on this forum when it came out, showed that only Vancouver used their 4th line less.  So while it's not unique to Carlyle (and hasn't really been presented as such that I've seen) it's still something done by him more than almost any other team.

Splitting hairs in typical Mirtle fashion.  Less?  Technically yes, but many other teams are within the same range for 4th line minutes.  I get that 2 mins / game is a bit crazy but it's not the average esp for Ashton... 4th lines playing 6'ish minutes / game is fairly common, and for the Leafs it only really is the 2 wingers playing that little. 

And TBH, if it's Ashton/Orr getting less minutes so Kessel/JVR can be out there a lot more, I'm all for it. 

Imagine if Carlyle was doing something actually wrong here, like playing Orr 15 mins / night and limiting Kessel to the same.

Where do you get the idea that people who dislike this approach think it is something that is unique to Carlyle? 

Read TML fan's quote again that I responded to. That's where I got it.