Steve Stamkos?

[herman]

Since the 2004-5 lockout, these teams have made the finals multiple times:
Detroit Red Wings: 2008, 2009
Pittsburgh Penguins: 2008, 2009, 2016
Chicago Blackhawks: 2010, 2013, 2015
Boston Bruins: 2011, 2013
Los Angeles Kings: 2012, 2014

Bolded years are Cup wins.
Significant UFA signings I can think of from these teams in these years: Zdeno Chara, Marian Hossa, Brian Rafalski (sort of)

The bulk of these repeats are during the pre-2013 CBA where back-diving contracts were the norm. The bulk of these teams cores are drafted and developed internally (Toews, Kane, Malkin, Crosby, Bergeron, Krejci, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Kopitar, Doughty).

 

[Kin]

Bolded years are Cup wins.
Significant UFA signings I can think of from these teams in these years: Zdeno Chara, Marian Hossa, Brian Rafalski (sort of)

Yeah, this is something we've talked about before but Hossa was unquestionably the most successful UFA contract of the post-lockout era but that's chiefly because of two things, the conditions he signed under were ideal(the team was already good, he fit a need they had and filled a secondary role) and his contract was ideal(he provided elite performance without an elite price tag).

If still available, that's a deal I'd sign any day of the week. As is, I think it's pretty telling that you can't do that sort of thing any more.

 

[sneakyray]

I just read on 2 different sites that stamkos made 1.7 million in 2015 in endorsements.

that will go down on the leafs?  I doubt it.

 

[bustaheims]

Bolded years are Cup wins.
Significant UFA signings I can think of from these teams in these years: Zdeno Chara, Marian Hossa, Brian Rafalski (sort of)

The only one you're missing is Gonchar for the first two Pittsburgh teams, and, to a lesser extent, Campbell, for the 1st Hawks team.

 

[bustaheims]

I just read on 2 different sites that stamkos made 1.7 million in 2015 in endorsements.

that will go down on the leafs?  I doubt it.

No one is suggesting it will go down. What we're disputing is whether or not it would increase significantly.

 

[sneakyray]

I just read on 2 different sites that stamkos made 1.7 million in 2015 in endorsements.

that will go down on the leafs?  I doubt it.

No one is suggesting it will go down. What we're disputing is whether or not it would increase significantly.

thought you were arguing that he would struggle to make 1.2 million or that it wasn't a slam dunk.

 

[Kin]

thought you were arguing that he would struggle to make 1.2 million or that it wasn't a slam dunk.

That was 1.2 million in addition to what he's already earning.

And for what it's worth, there is a real chance it could go down in Toronto. Not because Toronto's a worse market but because it's very legitimate that Stamkos would be a second banana here in short time to Matthews.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Since the 2004-5 lockout, these teams have made the finals multiple times:
Detroit Red Wings: 2008, 2009
Pittsburgh Penguins: 2008, 2009, 2016
Chicago Blackhawks: 2010, 2013, 2015
Boston Bruins: 2011, 2013
Los Angeles Kings: 2012, 2014

Bolded years are Cup wins.
Significant UFA signings I can think of from these teams in these years: Zdeno Chara, Marian Hossa, Brian Rafalski (sort of)

The bulk of these repeats are during the pre-2013 CBA where back-diving contracts were the norm. The bulk of these teams cores are drafted and developed internally (Toews, Kane, Malkin, Crosby, Bergeron, Krejci, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Kopitar, Doughty).

Chara was key to Boston's win, but that's about it from your UFA list.

 

[ZBBM]

The experts they interview don't seem to think so.  Read the lede again.

The experts they quote don't say anything about his ability to land those deals, just what he should expect to earn from them and why he might be appealing. That's a very important distinction.

You can be sure that, if one of the experts they interviewed said anything that remotely indicated those endorsement deals were actually available, that person would have been quoted as saying so.

Now you're just reaching.

 

[herman]

Bolded years are Cup wins.
Significant UFA signings I can think of from these teams in these years: Zdeno Chara, Marian Hossa, Brian Rafalski (sort of)

Yeah, this is something we've talked about before but Hossa was unquestionably the most successful UFA contract of the post-lockout era but that's chiefly because of two things, the conditions he signed under were ideal(the team was already good, he fit a need they had and filled a secondary role) and his contract was ideal(he provided elite performance without an elite price tag).

If still available, that's a deal I'd sign any day of the week. As is, I think it's pretty telling that you can't do that sort of thing any more.

The only one you're missing is Gonchar for the first two Pittsburgh teams, and, to a lesser extent, Campbell, for the 1st Hawks team.

Thanks for the additional names and context, guys.

So over the last 10 years, there have been 3 Cup Finals effective UFA signings (+2 sort ofs) conducive to repeated success; and for the most part they were augmentative additions, or impossible to duplicate value. I'm not even going to count how many UFA signings there have been in that time, but it looks like a very, very low success rate.

I'd be curious to see which teams made UFA splashes that resulted in them bleeding off younger potential stars as well, but without a comprehensive database of rosters and transaction history to play with, that'll have to wait for when the offseason is truly boring.

 

[sneakyray]

thought you were arguing that he would struggle to make 1.2 million or that it wasn't a slam dunk.

That was 1.2 million in addition to what he's already earning.

And for what it's worth, there is a real chance it could go down in Toronto. Not because Toronto's a worse market but because it's very legitimate that Stamkos would be a second banana here in short time to Matthews.

but if hes still good and they are winning...it doesn't matter he will still make a boatload in endorsements.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Is it considered taboo here to have any give in your positions?  Holy it's page upon page of just arguing the same things back and forth in different ways. 

 

[Kin]

but if hes still good and they are winning...it doesn't matter he will still make a boatload in endorsements.

That's roughly true, in as much as the biggest boats only carry tens of thousands.

There are only a handful of players who make more than a million per year in endorsements. The idea that Stamkos coming to Toronto would drastically increase that pie is like thinking that if Quebec got an expansion team Rogers' TV numbers would skyrocket. For the most part it's a tapped out market.

 

[bustaheims]

Now you're just reaching.

No, you're looking at what a sportswriter wrote to draw readers into his article and taking it as fact. I'd say you're the one that's reaching.

 

[sneakyray]

haha simmons...proving my point with sketchy sources!!!!!

canadian tire endorsement!

steve simmons ‏@simmonssteve  1m1 minute ago
SOURCES: Maple Leafs met with Steven Stamkos at MLSE headquarters Tuesday. Also present: Toronto Mayor John Tory and CEO of Canadian Tire.

 

[herman]

Is it considered taboo here to have any give in your positions?  Holy it's page upon page of just arguing the same things back and forth in different ways.

 

[Zee]

Is it considered taboo here to have any give in your positions?  Holy it's page upon page of just arguing the same things back and forth in different ways.

Steven Stamkos is neither a Steven, nor a Stamkos, discuss.

 

[sneakyray]

but if hes still good and they are winning...it doesn't matter he will still make a boatload in endorsements.

That's roughly true, in as much as the biggest boats only carry tens of thousands.

There are only a handful of players who make more than a million per year in endorsements. The idea that Stamkos coming to Toronto would drastically increase that pie is like thinking that if Quebec got an expansion team Rogers' TV numbers would skyrocket. For the most part it's a tapped out market.

there is no way that he would make the same in endorsements playing in buffalo rather than toronto.

 

[Kin]

there is no way that he would make the same in endorsements playing in buffalo rather than toronto.

That's probably true but the primary variable in endorsement dollars isn't the market. It's his individual success followed by the team's success.

Either way, you're probably not talking about a difference that matches the tax difference.

 

[cabber24]

SIMMONS TWEET

SOURCES: Maple Leafs met with Steven Stamkos at MLSE headquarters Tuesday. Also present: Toronto Mayor John Tory and CEO of Canadian Tire.