The Brian Burke Thread

[TML fan]

The difference is, you actually said those words.

You cut off a sentence half-way through to indicate I had said something 180 degrees away from what I said. Don't try to pretend there's any substantive difference.

Sure. Think what you like. (that goes for the scathing retort you threw in there late as well)

 

[Jalili]

I didn't mean to say that he wouldn't crack the lineup for 3 years. I meant that his development could have been slowed by up to 3 years. I'm not dealing in certainties. As I said I'm just trying to illustrate difficulties that Seguin may have faced in Toronto that he didn't in Boston. Yes, he would still be the same highly skilled player, but with a lot more individual pressure and expectations. Boston didn't NEED Seguin to be this good this soon. Just look at the treatment Luke Schenn gets, and it's generally accepted that defencemen take longer to develop than forwards.

Fair enough. I think you're right about the pressures of playing in Toronto; I won't get into why I think the Leaf management made that worse though. Moving on.

 

[Bender]

I didn't mean to say that he wouldn't crack the lineup for 3 years. I meant that his development could have been slowed by up to 3 years. I'm not dealing in certainties. As I said I'm just trying to illustrate difficulties that Seguin may have faced in Toronto that he didn't in Boston. Yes, he would still be the same highly skilled player, but with a lot more individual pressure and expectations. Boston didn't NEED Seguin to be this good this soon. Just look at the treatment Luke Schenn gets, and it's generally accepted that defencemen take longer to develop than forwards.

Fair enough. I think you're right about the pressures of playing in Toronto; I won't get into why I think the Leaf management made that worse though. Moving on.

I would argue that Schenn has been slagged since his sophomore season but whatever.

 

[rdowdall]

I didn't mean to say that he wouldn't crack the lineup for 3 years. I meant that his development could have been slowed by up to 3 years. I'm not dealing in certainties. As I said I'm just trying to illustrate difficulties that Seguin may have faced in Toronto that he didn't in Boston. Yes, he would still be the same highly skilled player, but with a lot more individual pressure and expectations. Boston didn't NEED Seguin to be this good this soon. Just look at the treatment Luke Schenn gets, and it's generally accepted that defencemen take longer to develop than forwards.

Fair enough. I think you're right about the pressures of playing in Toronto; I won't get into why I think the Leaf management made that worse though. Moving on.

I would argue that Schenn has been slagged since his sophomore season but whatever.

I don't know how Seguin would have performed in T.O.  I do know that when Kadri was sent down to the marlies, a paper put a picture on the front page of him in a baby bonnet.  He was the 7th overall pick in a draft.  I can't imagine what would have happened if a 2nd overall pick failed to meet expectations.  Of course, keeping the picks may have shifted where the media was going to put pressure.  Maybe there is more pressure on Kadri because of the lack of a top quality pick.

This is all speculation on my part, but I can't help feeling that if Seguin came in to T.O. and failed to live up to expectations, which I also speculate would be quite high, maybe in the region of "be as good as Stamkos", that the backlash would be harsh.

 

[ZBBM]

And with that presser, Burke, I hope you'll take the opportunity to shut your damn trap until such time -- if ever -- you actually produce a result worth talking about.

 

[Madferret]

And with that presser, Burke, I hope you'll take the opportunity to shut your damn trap until such time -- if ever -- you actually produce a result worth talking about.

That's a fair question but I'd like to think about it first. Next question.

 

[Zee]

If and when we miss the playoffs in 2013, I wonder if the new owners then fire Burke and get someone else in so we don't have to hear his year-end presser again.  The new GM will have to sell the "we stink and will draft high" approach that people have been talking about.  I can't take another loud-mouthed GM coming in and talking about quick-fixes and shortcuts.  Just bite the damn bullet and admit we need to build up our own top-line talent through good drafting.

 

[Peter D.]

I didn't catch the presser so I'm going off of what I've read here and in the papers, but did Burke actually say that (paraphrasing) "...some teams talk about 5-year rebuilding plans and he doesn't respect that..."?  :

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

He said he doesn't respect when a GM on their first day says they have a 5-year rebuilding plan because he thinks it gives them 5 years of a kind of free pass to not be successful.  In the next sentence he admitted he's failed at what he's tried to do in the time frame he wanted to do it.

 

[Kin]

So in other words, Burke doesn't respect a GM who fails for five years by design but does a GM who fails for five years by accident.

 

[maplesyrup]

I did like the "I was born impatient, I'm going to die impatient" thing. It seems he's going to "retool" as opposed to "rebuild" until it works or he loses his job - whatever comes first.  If anything, he sticks to his guns and I respect that. 

 

[Corn Flake]

Just bite the damn bullet and admit we need to build up our own top-line talent through good drafting.

Well he also talked about that and how many 1st round picks the Leafs have used or acquired over the last few years.. more than any other team.  Seems like that's a priority to me.

So if you want that to be the plan, then leaving Burke where he is would be a better idea than bringing in the next brash guy who wants to pick shortcuts, not succeed and then resort to staying with drafting.  If of course you can not let his press conferences cause your head to explode.

 

[Kin]

I did like the "I was born impatient, I'm going to die impatient" thing. It seems he's going to "retool" as opposed to "rebuild" until it works or he loses his job - whatever comes first.  If anything, he sticks to his guns and I respect that.

"No matter how often he was faced with the immutable fact that he was lost, he refused to deviate from his course. You had to respect that sort of thing"

 

[Kin]

Well he also talked about that and how many 1st round picks the Leafs have used or acquired over the last few years.. more than any other team.  Seems like that's a priority to me.

Yeah but that's the sort of thing that Burke says that's intentionally misleading. Acquiring Paradis does not address the need for elite talent within the system because Paradis was drafted at the bottom of the 1st round.

 

[sneakyray]

So the thing I caught was that he didn't say that July 1st is our draft which he has said the last few years.

changes are happening through trades.  thats what he said

the priorities are (in no particular order)
a goalie
size up front
a #1 C
and maybe some veteran leadership to help Dion out.

my thought is that the #5 pick has to somehow turn into a #1 franchise centre.  So whether thats grigorenko, gally, forsberg...or in a trade for someone that fits the bill.

 

[Zee]

He said he doesn't respect when a GM on their first day says they have a 5-year rebuilding plan because he thinks it gives them 5 years of a kind of free pass to not be successful.  In the next sentence he admitted he's failed at what he's tried to do in the time frame he wanted to do it.

You might not respect it but it's a reality of any team sport.  Unless you have no salary cap and unlimited free agency, you have to build up a team through drafting and developing your own players. A GM that says they have a 5 year plan is admitting the team has to draft young players and develop their own talent.  It doesn't mean you have to finish 30th every year for five straight years.  Burke keeps talking about acquiring:

a) top line center
b) goaltending
c) more size up front

Nobody is going to just hand him over top players for nothing.  What does he expect?  "Sure Burkie we drafted and developed this guy to a point where he's a top-end talent, you can have him and we'll take your scraps".

 

[maplesyrup]

I did like the "I was born impatient, I'm going to die impatient" thing. It seems he's going to "retool" as opposed to "rebuild" until it works or he loses his job - whatever comes first.  If anything, he sticks to his guns and I respect that.

"No matter how often he was faced with the immutable fact that he was lost, he refused to deviate from his course. You had to respect that sort of thing"

I know it sounds crazy but assuming he really believes in that, I respect him for it. Yes. Absolutely. Does it make him a good GM? Well, I don't know. I'm merely speaking on a personal level, not a professional one here.

 

[Kin]

I know it sounds crazy but assuming he really believes in that, I respect him for it. Yes. Absolutely. Does it make him a good GM? Well, I don't know. I'm merely speaking on a personal level, not a professional one here.

To each their own. Personally, I've always seen an inability/unwillingness to adapt as a weakness.

 

[maplesyrup]

I know it sounds crazy but assuming he really believes in that, I respect him for it. Yes. Absolutely. Does it make him a good GM? Well, I don't know. I'm merely speaking on a personal level, not a professional one here.

To each their own. Personally, I've always seen an inability/unwillingness to adapt as a weakness.

Sure. Me too...and to be fair to Burke, he's shown he can do that when he felt it necessary too -  like when he fired Wilson.

 

[Corn Flake]

Well he also talked about that and how many 1st round picks the Leafs have used or acquired over the last few years.. more than any other team.  Seems like that's a priority to me.

Yeah but that's the sort of thing that Burke says that's intentionally misleading. Acquiring Paradis does not address the need for elite talent within the system because Paradis was drafted at the bottom of the 1st round.

Interesting choice of an example. also I don't think he was referring to former 1st rounders they have traded away.  He was talking present.

Gardiner addresses it.