The Doughty situation

[Tigger]

I think he's worth Weber/Stamkos $ but that's just me....

I think there's an argument the other way and so my short term solution. I don't mean to speak ill of him either, he could be a Leaf no sooner for me however there are certain realities... limited leverage for the most part.

 

[Kin]

In general I agree but as has been noted there aren't too many teams in the position of bidding for a variety of reasons. The Leafs have other players/situations and the list of suitors would be short.

That was for an offer sheet though. In a trade cap issues, draft picks and even a team's financial state isn't as big a stumbling block provided LA would be taking some salary back.

Take the Rangers for example. They couldn't possibly put together an offer sheet because of cap reasons but they could make a trade offer of, say, Staal and Callahan(not that I'm saying that would do it but it'd be competitive with Kessel + Schenn) and have everything work cap wise.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think he's worth Weber/Stamkos $ but that's just me....

I think there's an argument the other way and so my short term solution. I don't mean to speak ill of him either, he could be a Leaf no sooner for me however there are certain realities... limited leverage for the most part.

I don't know about the no leverage part. The Kings have a lot more to lose than Doughty if this drags on. In an ultra-competitive Western conference, a slow start because they're missing their best defenceman/player could be the difference between making the playoffs and not.

And it's not like Doughty doesn't have anything to back up his demands. An Olympic gold medalist and Norris finalist at 20 years old doesn't come around every day.

 

[Tigger]

I think he's worth Weber/Stamkos $ but that's just me....

I think there's an argument the other way and so my short term solution. I don't mean to speak ill of him either, he could be a Leaf no sooner for me however there are certain realities... limited leverage for the most part.

I don't know about the no leverage part. The Kings have a lot more to lose than Doughty if this drags on. In an ultra-competitive Western conference, a slow start because they're missing their best defenceman/player could be the difference between making the playoffs and not.

And it's not like Doughty doesn't have anything to back up his demands. An Olympic gold medalist and Norris finalist at 20 years old doesn't come around every day.

LA holds a fair trump card there and it's not like their rumored offers have all been unscrupulous. To me he's just honestly not in the position to demand a 5+ year 7.5m+ contract.

 

[Kin]

LA holds a fair trump card there and it's not like their rumored offers have all been unscrupulous. To me he's just honestly not in the position to demand a 5+ year 7.5m+ contract.

If you're trying to sign him to a long term deal though you have to recognize that you'll be paying for potential to a degree. Being as Doughty's already had a year that most would agree was a 7.5 million kind of year I think it's reasonable to peg his potential along those lines.

If it's short term, maybe, but you can't expect Doughty to sign a deal that takes him to 25 and not have to try and figure out what he'll be worth at 25.

 

[Tigger]

In general I agree but as has been noted there aren't too many teams in the position of bidding for a variety of reasons. The Leafs have other players/situations and the list of suitors would be short.

That was for an offer sheet though. In a trade cap issues, draft picks and even a team's financial state isn't as big a stumbling block provided LA would be taking some salary back.

Take the Rangers for example. They couldn't possibly put together an offer sheet because of cap reasons but they could make a trade offer of, say, Staal and Callahan(not that I'm saying that would do it but it'd be competitive with Kessel + Schenn) and have everything work cap wise.

Sure but follow up that offer given it isn't good enough, should the Leafs add say Gardiner I'm not sure what the Rangers follow with. What are there, maybe 10 teams that could field a truly competitive offer? That might be generous.

Still, LA would be stupid not to figure this out. If I was an LA fan I'd be a bit off about the whole thing.

 

[Tigger]

LA holds a fair trump card there and it's not like their rumored offers have all been unscrupulous. To me he's just honestly not in the position to demand a 5+ year 7.5m+ contract.

If you're trying to sign him to a long term deal though you have to recognize that you'll be paying for potential to a degree. Being as Doughty's already had a year that most would agree was a 7.5 million kind of year I think it's reasonable to peg his potential along those lines.

If it's short term, maybe, but you can't expect Doughty to sign a deal that takes him to 25 and not have to try and figure out what he'll be worth at 25.

Pretty much what I was thinking, two years taking him to 23.

 

[Kin]

Sure but follow up that offer given it isn't good enough, should the Leafs add say Gardiner I'm not sure what the Rangers follow with. What are there, maybe 10 teams that could field a truly competitive offer? That might be generous.

Well, not that this is bible law or anything but when HF ranked organizations farm systems the Rangers actually ranked higher than the Leafs. So if the Leafs toss in a prospect I'm pretty sure the Rangers could keep up.

And I think just about any team could put together a competitive offer. You seem to be not quite as high on Doughty as most but if, as CTB says, he's potentially the most valuable defenseman in the league then most teams should want to. I mean, Vancouver could offer Kesler, Washington could offer Semin/Green, Chicago could offer Sharp and/or Seabrook and on and on and on.

 

[dappleganger]

I don't think Doughty is wrong to want more money than Kopitar which apparently is the holdup. Doughty is better than Kopitar. I would love to know what Doughty's demands are.
 

 

[Tigger]

Sure but follow up that offer given it isn't good enough, should the Leafs add say Gardiner I'm not sure what the Rangers follow with. What are there, maybe 10 teams that could field a truly competitive offer? That might be generous.

Well, not that this is bible law or anything but when HF ranked organizations farm systems the Rangers actually ranked higher than the Leafs. So if the Leafs toss in a prospect I'm pretty sure the Rangers could keep up.

And I think just about any team could put together a competitive offer. You seem to be not quite as high on Doughty as most but if, as CTB says, he's potentially the most valuable defenseman in the league then most teams should want to. I mean, Vancouver could offer Kesler, Washington could offer Semin/Green, Chicago could offer Sharp and/or Seabrook and on and on and on.

Ok, what Ranger prospect would be more valuable than Gardiner?

I don't think it's close to reasonable to suggest that Vancouver would offer Kesler, trade on their side or break their cap nor do I think it's reasonable to suggest LA would give a second thought to Semin. I don't think Washington would be so crass as to offer either anyways.

It's a tough fit.

 

[Kin]

Ok, what Ranger prospect would be more valuable than Gardiner?

I can't pretend to be familiar enough with the prospects in the Rangers system to really compare Gardiner to any of them.

To go back to HF, not because I know them to be terribly accurate but just because they do rank prospects, they rank Gardiner as a 7.5 C, whatever that is, and the Rangers have a number of prospects(Chris Kreider, Ryan McDonagh, JT Miller and so on) who are ranked the same or higher.

I don't think it's close to reasonable to suggest that Vancouver would offer Kesler, trade on their side or break their cap nor do I think it's reasonable to suggest LA would give a second thought to Semin. I don't think Washington would be so crass as to offer either anyways.

I think it's pretty fair to suggest that if a 20 year old Norris candidate is available that teams will pull out the stops to obtain him. His 09-10 really was that good.

Again, if we're operating under the assumption that teams would be sending salary back then Vancouver wouldn't be breaking their cap to obtain him and I don't think there's anything "crass" about Washington making a good offer for him.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't think it's close to reasonable to suggest that Vancouver would offer Kesler, trade on their side or break their cap nor do I think it's reasonable to suggest LA would give a second thought to Semin. I don't think Washington would be so crass as to offer either anyways.

I think it's pretty fair to suggest that if a 20 year old Norris candidate is available that teams will pull out the stops to obtain him. His 09-10 really was that good.

Again, if we're operating under the assumption that teams would be sending salary back then Vancouver wouldn't be breaking their cap to obtain him and I don't think there's anything "crass" about Washington making a good offer for him.

I'm not sure why LA wouldn't give Semin a second thought but apparently be interested in Kessel. Unless of course he's referring to the fact that Semin is an UFA next season, but I would imagine they would try to get an extension done if the trade possibility did in fact come up. Semin+Alzner/Carlson would definitely be an interesting starting point.

 

[Tigger]

His 09-10 really was that good.

If that was last year I'd probably agree with you.

 

[Damian]

the fact they havent locked up this kid is insane.... crazy insane

 

[Tigger]

I don't think it's close to reasonable to suggest that Vancouver would offer Kesler, trade on their side or break their cap nor do I think it's reasonable to suggest LA would give a second thought to Semin. I don't think Washington would be so crass as to offer either anyways.

I think it's pretty fair to suggest that if a 20 year old Norris candidate is available that teams will pull out the stops to obtain him. His 09-10 really was that good.

Again, if we're operating under the assumption that teams would be sending salary back then Vancouver wouldn't be breaking their cap to obtain him and I don't think there's anything "crass" about Washington making a good offer for him.

I'm not sure why LA wouldn't give Semin a second thought but apparently be interested in Kessel. Unless of course he's referring to the fact that Semin is an UFA next season, but I would imagine they would try to get an extension done if the trade possibility did in fact come up. Semin+Alzner/Carlson would definitely be an interesting starting point.

Am I the 'he' you're referring to here?

 

[Sudafederov]

Apparently Kings have reached a verbal multi year deal according to NHL Network.

 

[bustaheims]

LAKings: #LAKings reach verbal agreement on multi-year contract with D Drew Doughty: http://ht.ly/6Jag6

 

[Kin]

If that was last year I'd probably agree with you.

He still had a pretty good season last year. Top 25 in the league in scoring among defensemen and top 5 in terms of TOI/G.

I mean, unless you're saying that his second year was a fluke I'm not really sure it should matter a great deal.

 

[Tigger]

Ok, what Ranger prospect would be more valuable than Gardiner?

I can't pretend to be familiar enough with the prospects in the Rangers system to really compare Gardiner to any of them.

To go back to HF, not because I know them to be terribly accurate but just because they do rank prospects, they rank Gardiner as a 7.5 C, whatever that is, and the Rangers have a number of prospects(Chris Kreider, Ryan McDonagh, JT Miller and so on) who are ranked the same or higher.

I don't think it's close to reasonable to suggest that Vancouver would offer Kesler, trade on their side or break their cap nor do I think it's reasonable to suggest LA would give a second thought to Semin. I don't think Washington would be so crass as to offer either anyways.

I think it's pretty fair to suggest that if a 20 year old Norris candidate is available that teams will pull out the stops to obtain him. His 09-10 really was that good.

Again, if we're operating under the assumption that teams would be sending salary back then Vancouver wouldn't be breaking their cap to obtain him and I don't think there's anything "crass" about Washington making a good offer for him.

Crass in that Semin alone is a snub and Green is considered an integral part of the team, a twofer if you will...

 

[bustaheims]

TSNBobMcKenzie: Doughty deal is 8 years at $7M per year.