bustaheims
Active member
I actually think Buffalo could have done better than they did here, considering their situation - though, I guess that all depends on what they get for Moulson at the deadline.
Thomas Vanek traded to NYI
- Thread starter GhostofPotvin29
- Start date
Captain Canuck
New member
Seems to be an overpayment by the Isles and could turn into an outright disaster for them if they can't get Vanek under contract long term.
Ryan Miller is next....
Ryan Miller is next....
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
Captain Canuck said:
I would think so.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
L K said:
They already have 17 first and second round picks from 2012 through 2015.
bustaheims
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
Yeah. I won't be surprised if Vanek puts up close to 50 goals with Tavares, whereas I think Moulson will struggle to get to 30 if he spends the rest of the season with the Sabres.
bustaheims
Active member
Potvin29 said:
They could end up with 20+. That's seriously attempting to rebuild through the draft.
Chev-boyar-sky
New member
BlueWhiteBlood said:
They really should burn it down. What do they have to build around?
Myers (sort of), Hodgson, Grigorenko, Foligno......
Move Miller, Ott, Moulson and Ennis if they can at the deadline.
If Gillis hadn't gotten that brain injury and moved Hodgson for Kassian their team would be a total wasteland.
I actually like this deal for the Islanders. Thomas Vanek is a legitimate first line player. He's miles ahead of Matt Moulson and will be the best player Jon Tavares has played with in his NHL career. Value wise to jump from Moulson to Vanek I think a 1st and a 2nd is fair. Maybe a tad too high but that's the price you have to pay when you're trying to acquire the biggest name on the market.
Most people seem to have an issue with the fact that the Islanders paid this price for a rental player. They're obviously taking a chance here but by making this deal now and not at the trade deadline I think that it's a very calculated one. I mentioned that Tavares has never played with somebody as good as Vanek, but Vanek has never played with a top-10 forward like Tavares either before. The Islanders now have 4 months to try to convince a star player to sign with them. A star player who likely would have never given them a second thought if they came calling on July 1st. If Vanek and Tavares click here and Vanek signs an extension, this deal is an absolute steal for the Islanders.
If the two don't click, or come trade deadline Vanek hasn't shown any interest in re-signing with the team, well then Snow will have an opportunity to trade Vanek again. And this time his large cap hit won't scare away almost all potential suitors. I think he could definitely recoup that 1st round draft pick and get a pretty good prospect as well. At worst he would probably come out even value wise but in that case he's essentially getting Vanek over Moulson for free for 40-50 games.
The only way the Islanders outright lose this trade is if they hang onto Vanek and he walks July 1st. But that's the risk you take when you acquire rentals. Teams make these types of moves all the time at the deadline and they only get about a dozen regular seasons games out of their rental. The Islanders are going to get almost an entire season out of theirs.
Most people seem to have an issue with the fact that the Islanders paid this price for a rental player. They're obviously taking a chance here but by making this deal now and not at the trade deadline I think that it's a very calculated one. I mentioned that Tavares has never played with somebody as good as Vanek, but Vanek has never played with a top-10 forward like Tavares either before. The Islanders now have 4 months to try to convince a star player to sign with them. A star player who likely would have never given them a second thought if they came calling on July 1st. If Vanek and Tavares click here and Vanek signs an extension, this deal is an absolute steal for the Islanders.
If the two don't click, or come trade deadline Vanek hasn't shown any interest in re-signing with the team, well then Snow will have an opportunity to trade Vanek again. And this time his large cap hit won't scare away almost all potential suitors. I think he could definitely recoup that 1st round draft pick and get a pretty good prospect as well. At worst he would probably come out even value wise but in that case he's essentially getting Vanek over Moulson for free for 40-50 games.
The only way the Islanders outright lose this trade is if they hang onto Vanek and he walks July 1st. But that's the risk you take when you acquire rentals. Teams make these types of moves all the time at the deadline and they only get about a dozen regular seasons games out of their rental. The Islanders are going to get almost an entire season out of theirs.
Rebel_1812
New member
Potvin29 said:
The deal would have made sense if those picks were conditional on him signing there. As it stands it is gross overpayment. Its like a deadline deal way before the deadline.
Rebel_1812 said:
So it's much, much, much better than a deadline deal because the Islanders will get at least 4x the amount of games out of Vanek now than they would have if they traded for him at the deadline, right? Plus they have the ability to trade him at that point again.
Completely hypothetical, but if Bozak and Joe Thornton were both free agents at the end of this season and Thornton was available for trade, would anybody here not trade Bozak, a 1st, and a 2nd for Thornton with 70 games left in the season?
maplesyrup
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
I'm not sure I would. Also, that's assuming we're all operating under the understanding that the gap between Thornton and Bozak is roughly the same as the gap between Vanek and Moulson and honestly, I'm not sure it is. Vanek and Moulson have about the same amount of goals over the last three years, no?
bustaheims
Active member
Dr. Bobby Leafer said:
Sure, but, switch their places over the last 3 seasons, and I guarantee you Vanek scores significantly more than Moulson.
maplesyrup
New member
bustaheims said:
Guarantee? How? That's all speculative. Look, I don't doubt Vanek is the better guy. Where I disagree with a couple of you is how much better. I might have done Moulson and say, a mid round pick but a 1st and a 2nd? Nope. No way.
bustaheims
Active member
Dr. Bobby Leafer said:
I guarantee it because Vanek put up those similar goal totals with significantly lesser talent to support him and because, unlike Vanek, Moulson does not to a good job of creating offence on his own. The difference in talent between Vanek and Moulson is significantly bigger than you're making it out to be. You're over-valuing Moulson's goal totals without really considering his abilities as a player in comparison to Vanek's.
maplesyrup
New member
Eh. I feel Moulson's abilities are being downplayed because of Tavares.
bustaheims
Active member
Dr. Bobby Leafer said:
Not at all. He's just a very ordinary top 6 winger with a very ordinary top 6 winger skill level playing with one of the best centres in the league and having that inflate his totals. It's Vanek's abilities that you are downplaying. I mean, look at it this way, Vanek was a 30 goal scorer with guys like Derek Roy and Tim Connolly as his centre. Heck, he scored 40 with Roy one season. In his best season, he scored 43 with Danny Briere as his centre. Tavares will be, by a fairly wide margin, the most talented player he'll line up with. Considering he put up similar or better goal totals to Moulson with lesser talent, do you really truly believe he won't put up significantly better totals with Tavares than Moulson? I said it before and I'll say it again now - it won't surprise me if Vanek scores in the vicinity of 50 goals with Tavares, and that's something Moulson could never dream of.