Thomas Vanek traded to NYI

[mc]

Yikes, I would not have given up on Matt Moulson. Really like him as a player and him and Tavares had some good chemistry.

 

[Peter D.]

Initial reaction was that this was an overpayment by the Islanders. 

Moulson settled in quite nicely alongside Tavares to form a pretty dynamic duo.  Vanek will just as well and he has the capability to produce even more than Moulson, so I'll give the edge to the Islanders here.  But this is all contingent on the Islanders re-signing Vanek, because if he walks, those picks are a steep price to pay.

A much needed move for the Sabres, and I don't think they would have gotten more than they did.  This signifies the real start of their rebuild, and if Moulson shows no intent of re-signing there, they can just as easily peddle him off near the deadline for another high pick.

 

[Corn Flake]

Wow just saw this.

At first blush, it looks like a massive over payment by the Islanders to get a guy who could very well be a rental.  Moulson they probably could have kept at a reasonable price given his connection with Tavares. 

Isles could have just spent a 1st and a 2nd and Moulson to end up with nothing this summer.  Why are they acquiring rentals at this point in their curve?

Just like when they got Ryan Smyth only to miss the playoffs in the end anyway.  Premature move that set them back.

I like the deal for Buffalo who are already fire sale'ing the team.  Good return and they can probably turn Moulson into at least one more good 2nd pick, maybe more.

 

[Kin]

Wow just saw this.

At first blush, it looks like a massive over payment by the Islanders to get a guy who could very well be a rental.  Moulson they probably could have kept at a reasonable price given his connection with Tavares. 

Isles could have just spent a 1st and a 2nd and Moulson to end up with nothing this summer.  Why are they acquiring rentals at this point in their curve?

Just like when they got Ryan Smyth only to miss the playoffs in the end anyway.  Premature move that set them back.

I like the deal for Buffalo who are already fire sale'ing the team.  Good return and they can probably turn Moulson into at least one more good 2nd pick, maybe more.

I think that kind of looks at things from a very Toronto fan-centric perspective. If you're a team that hasn't had much success in attracting top name free agents regardless of what you offer them eventually you have to try a different tact in trying to land a player of Vanek's calibre. Unlike the Smyth trade, this isn't just a late season rental. They'll have Vanek for the majority of the season provided they don't try to trade him at the deadline and there's a value to that in terms of having that time to try and negotiate an extension. If that doesn't work and they don't think an extension is likely they can flip him at the deadline and probably get back most if not all of the value they gave up for him.

Really all this is right now is exchanging the rights to negotiate with Moulson for the rights to negotiate with Vanek and, at that point, even if the Islanders were keen on bringing Moulson back the idea that he'd sign an extension there isn't much less speculative than it is to say that Vanek will.

 

[Corn Flake]

I think that kind of looks at things from a very Toronto fan-centric perspective. If you're a team that hasn't had much success in attracting top name free agents regardless of what you offer them eventually you have to try a different tact in trying to land a player of Vanek's calibre. Unlike the Smyth trade, this isn't just a late season rental. They'll have Vanek for the majority of the season provided they don't try to trade him at the deadline and there's a value to that in terms of having that time to try and negotiate an extension. If that doesn't work and they don't think an extension is likely they can flip him at the deadline and probably get back most if not all of the value they gave up for him.

Really all this is right now is exchanging the rights to negotiate with Moulson for the rights to negotiate with Vanek and, at that point, even if the Islanders were keen on bringing Moulson back the idea that he'd sign an extension there isn't much less speculative than it is to say that Vanek will.

The only thing that convinces me it may not be that bad is the point you make about being able to deal him again at the deadline.  Could get messy though, if they are in the playoff hunt but can't get the guy signed .. do you trade him? Could derail what they have done.

I wonder if that was the best way to spend those assets. I get they have lots in the cupboard but on what could be a rental (yes, albeit nearly a full season rental).

The reason I think Moulson was more likely to extend is his longer term relationship with the team, with Tavares, the fact he's going to cost a lot less, etc. Sure it's speculative but connecting some of the dots isn't without some value. They probably have to dangle $8 mil in front of Vanek over a crazy term to keep him.  So overpay on a long term deal in a town that has not done well with super long term deals.

Time will tell.

 

[Bullfrog]

I think it's a decent trade, though perhaps on the steep side. Vanek is clearly a better player in my opinion.

 

[bustaheims]

The reason I think Moulson was more likely to extend is his longer term relationship with the team, with Tavares, the fact he's going to cost a lot less, etc. Sure it's speculative but connecting some of the dots isn't without some value.

There's actually been some rumblings that negotiations with Moulson were not going well and, at this early point in things, it was looking more likely that he'd test the UFA market rather than re-sign before it opened.

 

[Kin]

The only thing that convinces me it may not be that bad is the point you make about being able to deal him again at the deadline.  Could get messy though, if they are in the playoff hunt but can't get the guy signed .. do you trade him? Could derail what they have done.

Sure, but they also could have faced that situation with Moulson so, ultimately, it comes down to which player you want to have that uncertainty with and Vanek at least makes getting into the playoffs more likely.

I wonder if that was the best way to spend those assets. I get they have lots in the cupboard but on what could be a rental (yes, albeit nearly a full season rental).

Yeah, but again, I feel like it's a very Leafs-oriented way to look at things to see a guy who could very well help the Islanders to a significantly more successful season and think that's sort of irrelevant. In addition to asset management the Islanders are in the business of winning hockey games and Vanek does make that more likely even if it's "only" for a year. 

The reason I think Moulson was more likely to extend is his longer term relationship with the team, with Tavares, the fact he's going to cost a lot less, etc. Sure it's speculative but connecting some of the dots isn't without some value. They probably have to dangle $8 mil in front of Vanek over a crazy term to keep him.  So overpay on a long term deal in a town that has not done well with super long term deals.

Moulson may cost a lot less but he may not. He did score pretty well last year and if the Islanders think that his playing with Tavares has inflated his scoring to the point that he's priced himself above the actual value he provides than any sort of deal with Moulson isn't the best use of cap dollars and, if we're looking at this deal only focused on asset management, then losing Moulson but keeping the 5 or 6 or whatever million you'd have to pay to keep him is also a gain.

 

[Jalili]

What's also interesting to note is that under the new CBA rules the Isles can offer him an 8 year extension while the max another team can offer him is 7. Apparently that's a rule, although I had no idea it existed. (Correct me if I'm wrong!)

If they do manage to pull this off, they might have one of the new premier lines in the league on the way.

Vanek - Tavares - Strome

 

[Deebo]

What's also interesting to note is that under the new CBA rules the Isles can offer him an 8 year extension while the max another team can offer him is 7. Apparently that's a rule, although I had no idea it existed. (Correct me if I'm wrong!)

You are correct, likely why we saw Kessel get 8 years and Clarkson get 7 years.

 

[Corn Flake]

The reason I think Moulson was more likely to extend is his longer term relationship with the team, with Tavares, the fact he's going to cost a lot less, etc. Sure it's speculative but connecting some of the dots isn't without some value.

There's actually been some rumblings that negotiations with Moulson were not going well and, at this early point in things, it was looking more likely that he'd test the UFA market rather than re-sign before it opened.

Yeah I heard two different Isles related media guys on Hockeycentral suggesting the Isles were pretty much ready to part ways with Moulson, and contract had a fair bit to do with it.

This trade could really hurt him, without having a Tavares level centre to help him max out his stats. If his production drops significantly, it could really hurt what he gets this off season.

 

[Peter D.]

What's also interesting to note is that under the new CBA rules the Isles can offer him an 8 year extension while the max another team can offer him is 7. Apparently that's a rule, although I had no idea it existed. (Correct me if I'm wrong!)

You are correct, likely why we saw Kessel get 8 years and Clarkson get 7 years.

Does Vanek not have to be an Islander for an entire year before being able to be re-signed for 8 years?

 

[bustaheims]

Does Vanek not have to be an Islander for an entire year before being able to be re-signed for 8 years?

No, he just has to have been with the team as of the most recent trade deadline. So, by the letter of the law, he can't sign an 8 year extension with them today, but, he could in April (though, I imagine the league would let that slide). That right expires once the contract officially expires on July 1st.

 

[Corn Flake]

Considering Vanek's kind of up and down performance over his career, is he really a guy the Isles should commit 8 years to?  Their luck with uber-term deals has never been good.

Also....

...is that hair gel?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

 

[maplesyrup]

 

[CarltonTheBear]

John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl 35m
Sabres were willing to make Thomas Vanek highest-paid player in NHL, source says, yet he'd rather have chance to win.

Wow, that's something else. Now, there aren't really any other details here like how long the contract offer would have been and if just a year or two of his salary would have been say $10+mil or the overall cap hit would have ranked the highest, but if this is even remotely true they need to clean house in Buffalo now. Let somebody else handle the rebuild.

 

[bustaheims]

John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl 35m
Sabres were willing to make Thomas Vanek highest-paid player in NHL, source says, yet he'd rather have chance to win.

Wow, that's something else. Now, there aren't really any other details here like how long the contract offer would have been and if just a year or two of his salary would have been say $10+mil or the overall cap hit would have ranked the highest, but if this is even remotely true they need to clean house in Buffalo now. Let somebody else handle the rebuild.

Yeah. Since they found an owner with money, the Sabres management team has just made mistake after mistake after mistake.

 

[Omallley]

John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl 35m
Sabres were willing to make Thomas Vanek highest-paid player in NHL, source says, yet he'd rather have chance to win.

Wow, that's something else. Now, there aren't really any other details here like how long the contract offer would have been and if just a year or two of his salary would have been say $10+mil or the overall cap hit would have ranked the highest, but if this is even remotely true they need to clean house in Buffalo now. Let somebody else handle the rebuild.

Yeah. Since they found an owner with money, the Sabres management team has just made mistake after mistake after mistake.

*cough*Ville Leino*cough*

 

[OldTimeHockey]

John Vogl ‏@BuffNewsVogl 35m
Sabres were willing to make Thomas Vanek highest-paid player in NHL, source says, yet he'd rather have chance to win.

Wow, that's something else. Now, there aren't really any other details here like how long the contract offer would have been and if just a year or two of his salary would have been say $10+mil or the overall cap hit would have ranked the highest, but if this is even remotely true they need to clean house in Buffalo now. Let somebody else handle the rebuild.

Yeah. Since they found an owner with money, the Sabres management team has just made mistake after mistake after mistake.

Problem is the owner is a fan and is making decisions with his heart, not with his noggin.