2011-2012 NHL Thread

[Madferret]

Funny how quickly things can change with regards to Luongo.  I remember when they signed him to that long term deal, some Canucks fans were boasting to me about how it was a steal of a deal, lower cap hit by making a super long term deal, best goalie in the league etc.  Now those same Canucks fans want Luongo run out of town.

Is that really that surprising?

It kind of is.  When he was first traded to Vancouver it was pretty much regarded as highway robbery by Vancouver.  They got a great young goalie who would steal games for his team and gave up Bertuzzi who was all a mess after that Moore incident.  For years Luongo was the toast of the town, culminating in the Olympic goal medal in Vancouver.  Now he's viewed as a goalie with head problems and confidence issues who crumbles under the pressure of the big games.

I think you're mistaking surprising with satisfying. Did you believe all of that Luongo hype at the time?

Well he was a top goalie during his time in Florida, they had a brutal team but he would singlehandely win games for them.  He also did get the Canucks to the finals, so all in all he's done more than a lot of other goalies in the league.  I don't see that it was all hype, a few bounces and the Canucks could have won the Cup.  Funny they would throw Luongo under the bus now.

They've been throwing Luongo under the bus for years!

 

[Zee]

Funny how quickly things can change with regards to Luongo.  I remember when they signed him to that long term deal, some Canucks fans were boasting to me about how it was a steal of a deal, lower cap hit by making a super long term deal, best goalie in the league etc.  Now those same Canucks fans want Luongo run out of town.

Is that really that surprising?

It kind of is.  When he was first traded to Vancouver it was pretty much regarded as highway robbery by Vancouver.  They got a great young goalie who would steal games for his team and gave up Bertuzzi who was all a mess after that Moore incident.  For years Luongo was the toast of the town, culminating in the Olympic goal medal in Vancouver.  Now he's viewed as a goalie with head problems and confidence issues who crumbles under the pressure of the big games.

I think you're mistaking surprising with satisfying. Did you believe all of that Luongo hype at the time?

Well he was a top goalie during his time in Florida, they had a brutal team but he would singlehandely win games for them.  He also did get the Canucks to the finals, so all in all he's done more than a lot of other goalies in the league.  I don't see that it was all hype, a few bounces and the Canucks could have won the Cup.  Funny they would throw Luongo under the bus now.

They've been throwing Luongo under the bus for years!

That's a good point, I almost feel bad for Luongo. 

 

[Madferret]

The only thing I really remember about his time in Florida is how many shots he faced every night. He was good yeah but he wasn't good enough to ever carry them into the playoffs on his own. Canucks fans <at the time> thought they had the second coming of Roy but who could blame them after suffering through the Dan Cloutier years.

 

[cw]

Here's the video recap of the game:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2011020363

Schneider let in 3 goals on five shots. Some of them soft/quite stoppable.

Luongo let in 3 goals on 15 shots. Two of them a Nashville player got in alone on him - high percentage scoring chances like a breakaway. He stopped a third one like that. The other goal was a blast from in close where there was no humanly possible way he could react and the only question would be if he was out of position on the angle - I'm not positive because the video is inconclusive but his positioning was not bad. He may well have had virtually no chance on that one.

He hasn't played well this season but I didn't see his goaltending last night as "he crapped the bed last night"

I'm not sure what is going on with goalie assessments this season. Just because a team rings up a bunch of goals, the goalie seems to be getting hammered for it when sometimes, the team in front of them is giving up glorious scoring chances and they're being put away by good and accurate scoring skills - giving the goalie little chance to make the stop. That's how I would characterize Luongo's performance last night. And in my opinion, it's similar to what the Leafs did to Gustavsson in the recent Boston game.

I didn't catch the game or highlights, so I was strictly going on what I saw in the boxscore.  Obviously not the way to pass judgment, but knowing what's been going on in Vancouver the last little while and Luongo's play lately, it's tough not to jump to conclusions.

I have quite a few friends in B.C. who've had enough of Luongo.  One mentioned to me last night that he had hoped Luongo could have shown his worth in the game last night after Schneider was pulled.  While it may not be directly his fault, just as we say sometimes, they just wish he could have made that one extra save.

As someone who doesn't mind Gustavsson and hopes he succeeds, I totally understand that not everything can be pinned on the goalie (as was the case with Wednesday's game). 

This situation has been festering for the last little while in Vancouver.  They have a backup who is sufficient enough to be a #1.  They have a #1 who is making a whack load of money for the next decade who has stumbled out of the gates.  It's as if Luongo's confidence is shattered and there are those who believe it's best each party goes their own way.  I'm sure if Vancouver could get out of his contract some how, some way, they'd do it in a heartbeat and a good portion of the fanbase would rejoice.

No question that he hasn't played well this season and has had some questionable moments in prior seasons. I've seen too many uncharacteristic softies this year.

Right now, it's a crazy situation. Here, they have this supposed great goalie signed for the next 11 seasons at big cap bucks on a true Cup contender and he's played subpar - almost like a minor leaguer in a number of games.

As I've mentioned before, prior to the lockout, it seemed like goaltending was the most predictable position in hockey. No matter who they played for, guys like Roy, Hasek, Belfour, Brodeur, Joseph, etc - they were pretty solid and you could usually count on a good performance from them. Mediocre goalies were predictably mediocre. Now, it's nuts. One season a goalie is great and the next he can be a bum. It's become the least reliable position to predict. Even Rinne got yanked last night in that same game.

He's 32 which has been pretty close to prime years in the NHL for goalies and he doesn't have a terrible injury history - it's quite good - significant injury free. His worst season ever was a .913 save% (wouldn't Leafs fans love that  prior to Reimer). He bounced back with .928 last year. His numbers have to be near the top since the lockout. This year he's fallen to .892. I don't understand it. No way I could have predicted that with much certainty (though some might argue there were a few cracks appearing with 20/20 hindsight) and likely, neither could his GM.

Since the Leafs goalie troubles from the lockout, I've tried to educate myself more on the position. I feel I know volumes more than I did prior to the lockout to assess goaltending. But I still can't make tons of sense of some of these situations. All I can say right now is I'd never sign a goalie to anything more than a big five year deal no matter who he is because it's simply too risky - a Forest Gump Box of Chocolates where you never really know for sure what you're going to get.

 

[Zee]

The only thing I really remember about his time in Florida is how many shots he faced every night. He was good yeah but he wasn't good enough to every carry them into the playoffs on his own. Canucks fans <at the time> thought they had the second coming of Roy but who could blame them after suffering through the Dan Cloutier years.

What goalie is good enough to carry a team into the playoffs on his own?  They had multiple coaches for a few years there including the mad man Keenan.

 

[Madferret]

The only thing I really remember about his time in Florida is how many shots he faced every night. He was good yeah but he wasn't good enough to every carry them into the playoffs on his own. Canucks fans <at the time> thought they had the second coming of Roy but who could blame them after suffering through the Dan Cloutier years.

What goalie is good enough to carry a team into the playoffs on his own?  They had multiple coaches for a few years there including the mad man Keenan.

That's kinda my point.

 

[Zee]

The only thing I really remember about his time in Florida is how many shots he faced every night. He was good yeah but he wasn't good enough to every carry them into the playoffs on his own. Canucks fans <at the time> thought they had the second coming of Roy but who could blame them after suffering through the Dan Cloutier years.

What goalie is good enough to carry a team into the playoffs on his own?  They had multiple coaches for a few years there including the mad man Keenan.

That's kinda my point.

I don't understand your point.  You said " He was good yeah but he wasn't good enough to ever carry them into the playoffs on his own", but what goalie do you expect to carry a team into the playoffs on his own?  Patrick Roy couldn't even do that so I excuse the Vancouver fans for thinking they were getting the next Roy.  I'm pretty sure there were many other GMs who would have wanted Luongo.  He was real good on Florida.  (also very good on Vancouver based on his stats before this season)

 

[Madferret]

The only thing I really remember about his time in Florida is how many shots he faced every night. He was good yeah but he wasn't good enough to every carry them into the playoffs on his own. Canucks fans <at the time> thought they had the second coming of Roy but who could blame them after suffering through the Dan Cloutier years.

What goalie is good enough to carry a team into the playoffs on his own?  They had multiple coaches for a few years there including the mad man Keenan.

That's kinda my point.

I don't understand your point.  You said " He was good yeah but he wasn't good enough to ever carry them into the playoffs on his own", but what goalie do you expect to carry a team into the playoffs on his own?  Patrick Roy couldn't even do that so I excuse the Vancouver fans for thinking they were getting the next Roy.  I'm pretty sure there were many other GMs who would have wanted Luongo.  He was real good on Florida.  (also very good on Vancouver based on his stats before this season)

I think my point was there was no way he could live up to the expectations that Canuck fans placed on him after he was traded there - so it's not surprising that he hasn't yet.  It's also not surprising that the Luongo honeymoon is over but like I said it has been for a while.

 

[Sucker Punch]

What goalie is good enough to carry a team into the playoffs on his own?

Robin Lehner.

 

[Madferret]

What goalie is good enough to carry a team into the playoffs on his own?

Robin Lehner.

Brian Elliott!

 

[The Red Polar Bear]

They've been throwing Luongo under the bus for years!

That's a good point, I almost feel bad for Luongo. 

I feel bad for the bus.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Player agent Allan Walsh destroying his clients NHL career?

"While I have tremendous respect for Scott Howson and the rest of Columbus' management team, the situation regarding Derick Brassard has become untenable," Walsh wrote. "This coach has a history of burying players and using them as scapegoats to mask his own lack of success on the ice. Derick has been singled out, almost from the very beginning of the season to be the fall guy in case things don't go well. The Columbus organization cares about Derick and has been good to him, but at some point enough is enough."

Wow.  Yeah, I think there's more tactful ways of asking for a trade...

It's not the first time for Walsh.
link
Just like he did when Martin Havlat(notes) was being used in a "purely secondary role" after signing with the Minnesota Wild, accusing coach Todd Richards ailing to recognize Havlat's accomplishments: "It's like we are in a time warp and the coach has totally ignored or chooses to ignore what Marty has done offensively over the course of his entire career."

Just like he did when he claimed Richards was treating Petr Sykora with "less respect than a rookie" through his ice time, despite scoring just two goals in 13 games.

Just like he did when making his Twitter quip about Montreal Canadiens goalie Carey Price(notes), who was in competition with Walsh client Jaroslav Halak(notes) at the time in 2010:"Interesting stat of the night.... #Habs' Price is 10W, 32L in last 42 starts. Hmm."

Please note that none of those clients remain with those teams.

Could you imagine if Brassard was playing for Burke and Wilson and Walsh was foolish enough to make those comments?

 

[cw]

Player agent Allan Walsh destroying his clients NHL career?

"While I have tremendous respect for Scott Howson and the rest of Columbus' management team, the situation regarding Derick Brassard has become untenable," Walsh wrote. "This coach has a history of burying players and using them as scapegoats to mask his own lack of success on the ice. Derick has been singled out, almost from the very beginning of the season to be the fall guy in case things don't go well. The Columbus organization cares about Derick and has been good to him, but at some point enough is enough."

Wow.  Yeah, I think there's more tactful ways of asking for a trade...

It's not the first time for Walsh.
link
Just like he did when Martin Havlat(notes) was being used in a "purely secondary role" after signing with the Minnesota Wild, accusing coach Todd Richards ailing to recognize Havlat's accomplishments: "It's like we are in a time warp and the coach has totally ignored or chooses to ignore what Marty has done offensively over the course of his entire career."

Just like he did when he claimed Richards was treating Petr Sykora with "less respect than a rookie" through his ice time, despite scoring just two goals in 13 games.

Just like he did when making his Twitter quip about Montreal Canadiens goalie Carey Price(notes), who was in competition with Walsh client Jaroslav Halak(notes) at the time in 2010:"Interesting stat of the night.... #Habs' Price is 10W, 32L in last 42 starts. Hmm."

Please note that none of those clients remain with those teams.

Could you imagine if Brassard was playing for Burke and Wilson and Walsh was foolish enough to make those comments?

Allan Walsh
Octagon-Hockey, Sports Agent/Lawyer
Los Angeles

Restored and Historic Los Angeles County Barns for Rent,
Los Angeles County, California Barn Rentals

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

...
he crapped the bed last night when there was a crack for him to easily steal back the #1 job.  It'd take one heckuva sell job to move that contract, but something's got to give.  Or perhaps the Canucks ride out this year and hope that the upcoming CBA enables teams to void one contract, similar to what the NBA did.

Here's the video recap of the game:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2011020363

Schneider let in 3 goals on five shots. Some of them soft/quite stoppable.

Didn't watch the goals as my internet connection at home is poor, but I read a bunch of comments on Twitter from Canucks fans who were pretty angry Schneider was pulled.  A lot of them were to the effect of Vigneault just looking for an excuse to pull Schneider, and that he wouldn't have pulled Luongo in that situation, etc., and that Schneider didn't have a chance on a couple (or weren't his fault).

I have no problem seeing this happen with Vancouver.  Hope it consumes them whole.

 

[cw]

...
he crapped the bed last night when there was a crack for him to easily steal back the #1 job.  It'd take one heckuva sell job to move that contract, but something's got to give.  Or perhaps the Canucks ride out this year and hope that the upcoming CBA enables teams to void one contract, similar to what the NBA did.

Here's the video recap of the game:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2011020363

Schneider let in 3 goals on five shots. Some of them soft/quite stoppable.

Didn't watch the goals as my internet connection at home is poor, but I read a bunch of comments on Twitter from Canucks fans who were pretty angry Schneider was pulled.  A lot of them were to the effect of Vigneault just looking for an excuse to pull Schneider, and that he wouldn't have pulled Luongo in that situation, etc., and that Schneider didn't have a chance on a couple (or weren't his fault).

I have no problem seeing this happen with Vancouver.  Hope it consumes them whole.

One of the goals was very much like the soft goal Frattin scored on Thomas. Another was a sharp angle backhand that squeezed through when most might think it shouldn't have. The third one wasn't so bad - kind of like Chara's or Pouliot's goal on Gus except it was glove side and he kind of waved at it which maybe made it look worse. It was a Weber blast from further out and on an angle.

3 goals on 5 shots? I didn't blame the coach for making the switch.

That's coming from someone not totally down on the Canucks as I pull for Cdn teams when the Leafs fall short.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So you're saying hockey fans over-reacted and were irrational?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So you're saying hockey fans over-reacted and were irrational?

I expected more from Canuck fans...

 

[cw]

Boudreau's Ducks got up 3-0 on the Flyers and lost 4-3 in OT. Flyers with three PPG. Flyers got 9 PPs to Ducks 3.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/recap.htm?id=2011020371
Beauchemin on the ice for 3 of the 4 Flyers goals. In fairness to him, he leads to Ducks dmen in TOI/game (26+ mins/game) and from a couple of reports I've read, been their best dman.

 

[Sudafederov]

Punched Out, Part 1

"Over six months, The New York Times examined the life and death of the professional hockey player Derek Boogaard, who rose to fame as one of the sport's most feared fighters before dying at age 28 on May 13.
This article, the first of a three-part series, revisits Boogaard's childhood in the rugged youth and junior leagues of western Canada and his progression from physically awkward boy to renowned brawler on the ice."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/sports/hockey/derek-boogaard-a-boy-learns-to-brawl.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Lots of interactive features. A great read.

 

[bustaheims]

Matt Moulson has 4 goals through 2 periods for the Isles tonight.

Also, there's a shoot out going on in Edmonton tonight - 4 goals and I'm not sure they're halfway through the 1st period yet.