2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[Kin]

Marleau will only be leaving the Leafs before the end of his contract if he wants to.

And anyway, I'm not sure why all the complaining.  We knew from the get-go that his cap hit wasn't going to be justified by his points production.  They overpaid him to come in and be a mentor, which by all accounts he's done superbly, and hopefully put up a decent number of points.  He'll probably end up with 20/40 at the end of the season.  He won't be a defensive black hole.

Would it be nice if he were getting paid 4 instead of 6?  Of course, but then he never would have left SJ for that number.

I think Marleau is doing just fine, in the big scheme of things.

Yep. And if the Leafs don't win a Cup this season, the already slim chance of him wanting to leave the Leafs becomes zero.

If you get rid of Zaitsev and Brown, that opens up the same amount of cap dollars.

I really do like this trend of describing the idea that a guy who's turning 40 before next season and has already made 90+ million dollars may consider retiring as some sort of crazy nonsense fantasy.

 

[mr grieves]

Marleau will only be leaving the Leafs before the end of his contract if he wants to.

And anyway, I'm not sure why all the complaining.  We knew from the get-go that his cap hit wasn't going to be justified by his points production.  They overpaid him to come in and be a mentor, which by all accounts he's done superbly, and hopefully put up a decent number of points.  He'll probably end up with 20/40 at the end of the season.  He won't be a defensive black hole.

Would it be nice if he were getting paid 4 instead of 6?  Of course, but then he never would have left SJ for that number.

I think Marleau is doing just fine, in the big scheme of things.

Yep. And if the Leafs don't win a Cup this season, the already slim chance of him wanting to leave the Leafs becomes zero.

If you get rid of Zaitsev and Brown, that opens up the same amount of cap dollars.

I really do like this trend of describing the idea that a guy who's turning 40 before next season and has already made 90+ million dollars may consider retiring as some sort of crazy nonsense fantasy.

I thought the 35+ contract means we'd see no cap savings in the event of a retirement and the only way we clear his contract from the cap is by moving him to another team or to LTIR?

Anyhow, I doubt he's willingly leaving the roster until he has his Cup.

 

[Bullfrog]

Just so everyone knows, even if he retires, since he signed the contract at age 35+, his cap hit stays.

I think some are forgetting this point.

Though I understand the point of this rule to prevent teams from taking advantage of front-loaded contracts, it's somewhat unfair to the Leafs in this situation. If Marleau chooses to retire next year, he foregoes his salary, but it handcuffs the Leafs because they now have his full cap hit on the books AND they have to replace him.

So Nik's point that a very wealthy (and currently healthy) Marleau may be fully willing to walk -- especially if they win the cup -- raises a very real risk.

My question: if he retires and is therefore owed no salary, what value would the Leafs have to pay to trade him to a bottom-cap team? It can't very high; maybe a mid- to late-round pick?

 

[Frank E]

My question: if he retires and is therefore owed no salary, what value would the Leafs have to pay to trade him to a bottom-cap team? It can't very high; maybe a mid- to late-round pick?

That's the scenario that I was thinking of, especially since he'd only be playing for $1.25m during the regular season after his signing bonus is paid.  And I'm assuming that his signing bonus doesn't have to be repaid if he retires...I'm not sure of the rules on that.

 

[louisstamos]

My question: if he retires and is therefore owed no salary, what value would the Leafs have to pay to trade him to a bottom-cap team? It can't very high; maybe a mid- to late-round pick?

Unfortunately a lot higher - for example, the Detroit Red Wings had to give up a 1st round pick (16th overall) to take on a retired Pavel Datsuyk.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/red-wings-trade-pavel-datsyuks-contract-coyotes/

edit: my bad - Detroit got a first round pick in return.  Basically moved down 4 spots in the first round in order for Phoenix to take it.

 

[Kin]

I thought the 35+ contract means we'd see no cap savings in the event of a retirement and the only way we clear his contract from the cap is by moving him to another team or to LTIR?

Right. And you pay him his signing bonus as a bon voyage then trade him and his high cap hit/low actual payout to a team with cap room along with a 4th or something.

Again, I have no way of knowing how things shake out but nothing there is outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Kin]

Unfortunately a lot higher - for example, the Detroit Red Wings had to give up a 1st round pick (16th overall) to take on a retired Pavel Datsuyk.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/red-wings-trade-pavel-datsyuks-contract-coyotes/

edit: my bad - Detroit got a first round pick in return.  Basically moved down 4 spots in the first round in order for Phoenix to take it.

It's not even that bad. Phoenix got the 16th pick and Datsyuk from Detroit, Detroit got the 20th pick and the 53rd pick from Phoenix. There's really no evidence getting rid of Datsyuk cost Detroit anything at all.

To illustrate the point, Phoenix traded the 53rd pick to move up four spots and just a little while later in the draft the Blues traded the 87th pick to move up two spots.

 

[Bullfrog]

Ya, if there's a team that has a lot of cap space, it's of zero burden to them to have him on the roster for one year. The cost can't be very high.

 

[herman]

There were a couple of pretty good posts over on r/leafs (which is a pretty mixed bag a lot of the time, as a function of being the largest online community of Leafs-invested people) in light of the 'tough' talk surrounding the Leafs during their mini slump culminating in an embarrassing showing in Boston and Hyman's suspension.

Why is nobody talking about the hit on Johnsson
Boston Bruins, Referees, and the Normalising Of Dirty Hockey

The strategy employed by the Bruins (and a couple other teams) takes advantage of the Normalization of Deviance. Basically flood the refs with so many infractions that they either feel bad about calling penalties, or have become immunized to the Bruins' antics ('boys will be boys', 'Marchand's gonna Marchand'). We saw it in the playoffs last season as well when our vaunted Power Play was neutered from the get go by the refs switching to 'Playoff Rules'.

What can we do about it?

 

[AvroArrow]

Yeah, Boston's been doing this for a LOOOOOOONG time.  They pretty much have it down to a science.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The strategy employed by the Bruins (and a couple other teams) takes advantage of the Normalization of Deviance. Basically flood the refs with so many infractions that they either feel bad about calling penalties, or have become immunized to the Bruins' antics ('boys will be boys', 'Marchand's gonna Marchand'). We saw it in the playoffs last season as well when our vaunted Power Play was neutered from the get go by the refs switching to 'Playoff Rules'.

What can we do about it?

Reminds me of the Philly Flyers Broad Street Bullies tactics back in the day, when there were so many penalties instigated by the Flyers that the referees couldn't call them all.

Yes, it was a vastly different back in the violent days of the NHL, but the idea that the Bruins employ a similar tactic leaving the referees with whatever choice they make in either calling them or not, is reminiscent of days past.

 

[hockeyfan1]

There are hockey Moms and then there are awesome hockey Moms: a salute to hockey Moms everywhere!

[tweet]1073200926180007938[/tweet]

...she did want to tell Toronto fans about her son and what this opportunity with the Maple Leafs means to him.

She wanted them to know he loves the city and the team and is committed to doing everything he can to help them win.

Those who know the family well credit Ema Matthews as the source of Auston Matthews? quiet, grounded nature.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/1074301855650512896
https://twitter.com/briancrd/status/1074142235267018752

 

[ZBBM]

It'll start clicking better soon.  The training camp do-over with The Roster We All Thought Were Getting is about done.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/billius27/status/1074397882881622022

This is a really good breakdown of what?s happening (reverse luck).

 

[hockeyfan1]

Some quick comparison stats (Re: Leafs - Tampa Bay):

Source:  Seigel/hockey-reference.com

 

[herman]

Jons Siegel really buries the lede in his latest piece on Marner?s meteoric and totally expected rise. Let me unearth it for you.

?Usually when we have our team parties, him and Jake are typically the ones doing a dance-off,? Matthews said of his good buddy Marner and Jake Gardiner. ?Jake?s more of a, I want to say a strip club kind of dancer ? ?Magic Mike?, kind of erotic ? and Mitch is kinda more the Fortnite dances, today?s kids? kind of dances. He?s pretty good. I?ll give him that. But I?m more of a fan of Jake?s dances.?

Plus you get a taste of how his contract negotiation is going to go

 

[BrownRolo]

Jons Siegel really buries the lede in his latest piece on Marner?s meteoric and totally expected rise. Let me unearth it for you.

?Usually when we have our team parties, him and Jake are typically the ones doing a dance-off,? Matthews said of his good buddy Marner and Jake Gardiner. ?Jake?s more of a, I want to say a strip club kind of dancer ? ?Magic Mike?, kind of erotic ? and Mitch is kinda more the Fortnite dances, today?s kids? kind of dances. He?s pretty good. I?ll give him that. But I?m more of a fan of Jake?s dances.?

Plus you get a taste of how his contract negotiation is going to go

Matthews: Okay, Dubie, I'll sign the 8x10 deal. But you gave me your word. Are you sure you can keep it?

Dubas: Yes, Auston, I promise you as long as I am GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs we will go to Vegas once a year as a team so you can see the Magic Mike show.

 

[L K]

https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/1074301855650512896
https://twitter.com/briancrd/status/1074142235267018752

It's frustrating.  Nylander hasn't been amazing but anyone expecting a guy to shake off 2.5 months of non-season/non NHL practice rust that everyone else got is absurd.  Expecting him to do it when his last professional game was in April is even stupider. 

The team is slumping.  Andersen hasn't been good this month.  Sparks hasn't been good all year. 

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1074698854648303616