2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion

[Guilt Trip]

I can't see Goat on the team period. He offers nothing other then a warm body. That's not good enough these days.

Maybe although in the absence of him you have to have a guy who'll be on the big club roster and can play in event of emergency but who you don't mind sitting in the press box most nights or for weeks at a time.

Or, as you put it, all you want in a 13th forward is more or less just a warm body.

With the Marlies just down the road, why do you need a 13th taking up cap space? I know he would have to clear waivers but that's not a big deal if he's claimed. Leafs need to save as much cap space as possible during the year as well right?

 

[Kin]

With the Marlies just down the road, why do you need a 13th taking up cap space?

Last minute line-up changes and road games.

 

[Guilt Trip]

With the Marlies just down the road, why do you need a 13th taking up cap space?

Last minute line-up changes and road games.

Good point. I can see doing it for road games, but they should be pretty good for home games I would think.

 

[herman]

I know the cap puts us into skeleton crew territory, but I would like to see our press box mixed into the regular season games with more consistency to keep them in game shape and to give us options.

What?s nice is now almost all of our 4th line options are centres too: Petan, Gauthier, Shore, Spezza.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I know the cap puts us into skeleton crew territory, but I would like to see our press box mixed into the regular season games with more consistency to keep them in game shape and to give us options.

What?s nice is now almost all of our 4th line options are centres too: Petan, Gauthier, Shore, Spezza.

I think that was one of Babs' biggest downfalls last year. He didn't generate enough competition amongst the players.

 

[Kin]

So to sum up what happened today:

- They signed Jason Spezza, a guy who probably gives them roughly 75-80% of what Marleau would have as a 3rd/4th line veteran at a 10th of the price.

- They got out of the Zaitsev deal for no real cost outside of Connor Brown while getting a 3rd and a depth defenseman in return(and whatever Ceci is).

- They flipped Kadri, Rosen and a 3rd and got back Barrie, who's roughly a push for Gardiner at significantly less cost, as well as Kerfoot who will go a ways to replacing Kadri.

Looking at all that it's really tough to see how anyone could be unhappy outside of having a larger problem with the issue of how the team is balanced. If you don't like the team's balance in terms of cap distribution between the forwards and defense, fair enough, but there was no getting around that being an issue ever since Tavares was signed. If you want to trade Marner or Tavares or Nylander for defense(or one or both of Kapanen/Johnsson) then, while I think that's nuts, you need to make a case for that directly instead of finding fault with what seems to be a really good job of making use of the limited resources available.

Going into next year with all of the big 4 signed(eventually) and a defense that figures to be roughly as good as it was last year is a win given the cap realities. True, they've simply pushed some of that cap problem to next year but next year's problems will have next year's solutions. For now, this was a pretty good day. 

 

[herman]

If someone told me before the draft that we?d be rid of nearly every anchor contract on the roster and add a top pairing RD for the cost of Kadri and a 1st (and Brown and Ros?n, who are accessories) without eating significant dollars/term in return, I?d laugh at your wishful thinking.

There?s a good chunk more sample size now in how Dubas operates, and it?s on the right side of the ledger in my book.

 

[lc9]

Agreed. It was a solid day for the Leafs front office. 

 

[Kin]

If someone told me before the draft that we?d be rid of nearly every anchor contract on the roster and add a top pairing RD for the cost of Kadri and a 1st (and Brown and Ros?n, who are accessories) without eating significant dollars/term in return, I?d laugh at your wishful thinking.

With regards to Marleau, I know people aren't going to stop somehow blaming Dubas for Marleau's contract for some reason but I really think that there's no other way to look at it outside of either having to bite the bullet and pay what it cost to get rid of the cap hit or not bring back probably both of Kapanen and Johnsson.

If anyone would rather have the 1st and Marleau next year instead of those two signed to very reasonable multi-year deals...well, I'm glad they're not running the team.

 

[hockeyfan1]

As of today (without the Marner signing, nor Ceci, Kerfoot):

                          Cap Hit        Days in NHL  Prorated Cap Hit  Projected roster   
Name          (or Qualifying Offer)  if 2-way
One-way  contracts
Auston Matthews 11,634,000                    11,634,000            11,634,000
John Tavares      11,000,000                    11,000,000            11,000,000
William Nylander  6,962,366                      6,962,366              6,962,366
Andreas Johnsson  3,400,000                      3,400,000              3,400,000
Kasperi Kapanen    3,200,000                      3,200,000              3,200,000
Zach Hyman          2,250,000                      2,250,000              2,250,000
Trevor Moore            775,000                        775,000                775,000
Nix Petan                775,000                        775,000                775,000
Kevin Gravel            700,000                        700,000                700,000
Jason Spezza            700,000                        700,000                700,000
Kenny Agoatino        700,000                        700,000                700,000
Nick Shore                750,000                        750,000                750,000
Morgan Reilly          5,000,000                      5,000,000              5,000,000
Jake Muzzin            4,000,000                      4,000,000              4,000,000
Tyson Barrie          2,750,000                      2,750,000              2,750,000
Justin Holl                675,000                        675,000                675,000
Ben Harper                725,000                        725,000                725,000
Martin Marincin          700,000                        700,000                700,000
Frederick Andersen  5,000,000                      5,000,000              5,000,000
Garret Sparks            750,000                        750,000                700,000   
Michael Hutchinson    700,000                        700,000                700,000 
Nathan Horton        5,300,000                      5,300,000              5,300,000

Name
Two-way Contracts
Frederick Gauthier      675,000      180            675,000
Travis Dermott          863,333      180            863,333                  863,333
Ilya Mikheyev            925,000        0                  0                      925,000
Egor  Korshkov          925,000        0                  0
Pierre Engvall            925,000        0                  0
Jeremy Bracco
Semyon Der            783,333          0                  0
Arguchintsev
Mason Marchment    767,500          0                  0
Adam Brooks            759,167          0                  0
Dmytro Timashov      694,444          0                  0
Rasmus Sandin        894,167          0                  0
Timothy Liljegren      863,333          0                  0
Joe Duszak              800,000          0                  0
Mac Hollowell            799,766          0                  0
Teemi Kivihalme        792,500          0                  0
Jesper Lindgren        775,833        0                  0
Aaron Luchuk            759,166        0                  0
Andreas Borgman      700,000        0                  0
Ian Scott                  805,833        0                  0
Joseph Woll              800,000        0                  0
Kasimir Kaskisuo        600,000        6                22,500

Name
Qualifying Offers
Cody Ceci                4,300,000                        4,300,000
Alex Kerfoot                874,125        180              874,125
Mitch Marner              874,125                          874,125

Retained                                                        1,200,000          1,200,000
Total:     
                                                                    77,255,449        68,609,699

Salary Cap          81,500,000                                                  81,500,000
10% overage        8,150,000
Total:                                                            89,650,000   
Cap Space                                                    12,394,551        12,890,301 


More info:
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2019/7/1/20678205/maple-leafs-cap-space-post-kadri-trade-mitch-marne-how-much-space           

 

[Kin]

Or maybe just this?

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

 

[Bender]

So I was just kind of thinking. Why don't we flip Ceci for whatever and just re-sign Jake to a deal? I wonder if we can get him for $5.5m and make it work.

 

[Kin]

So I was just kind of thinking. Why don't we flip Ceci for whatever and just re-sign Jake to a deal? I wonder if we can get him for $5.5m and make it work.

1) It's unlikely that you could get Gardiner to sign for that much

2) Even if you could, the Leafs might not have the space

3) #2 is entirely dependent on what they can get Marner to sign for, which they probably don't know.


I tell you the really frustrating thing though. There's a chance, albeit a small one, that the difference between having the cap space for Ceci and the cap space for Gardiner is about as much as the Leafs are being charged for Kessel.

I mean, who does it help that the Leafs can't trade that cap hit? Why isn't it a good thing if the Leafs could get a smaller market team to take that for a 4th or something?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I tell you the really frustrating thing though. There's a chance, albeit a small one, that the difference between having the cap space for Ceci and the cap space for Gardiner is about as much as the Leafs are being charged for Kessel.

I mean, who does it help that the Leafs can't trade that cap hit? Why isn't it a good thing if the Leafs could get a smaller market team to take that for a 4th or something?

Yeah the fact that the league has absolutely zero issues with LTIR contracts being bounced from team to team for draft picks but for some reason retained salaries are 100% locked in doesn't make sense to me.

 

[herman]

I think Gardiner was holding out for the Leafs to bring something to the table, and most teams are wary of his back issue. There might be an opportunity to 1x5M him as a show-me if no one else bites.

 

[L K]

I think Gardiner was holding out for the Leafs to bring something to the table, and most teams are wary of his back issue. There might be an opportunity to 1x5M him as a show-me if no one else bites.

Is there a scenario where they can absorb 5M?  The team below only has a little over 3M in cap space.

Hyman, Horton and Dermott on LTIR helps but even if they sign Kerfoot to 3.5M and Marner to 9M they would only have 3.178M in cap space if they went with a roster of

13 Forwards - Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson, Moore, Petan, Agostino, Shore, Spezza, Gauthier

7 Defensemen - Rielly, Muzzin, Barrie, Holl, Marincin, Ceci, Harpur

2 Goaltenders - Andersen, Hutchinson

Mikheyev is 225K more than some of the other discount 4th liners but has a decent shot at making the team.  Then when Hyman and Dermott return we have another cap crunch situation.  I don't think there really is a way for Gardiner to come back unless they trade another mid-6 forward and that doesn't seem like a great move given the concerns with Gardiner's back.

 

[herman]

Dump Ceci and waive Harpur, waive a couple of the 4th liners?

 

[L K]

Dump Ceci and waive Harpur, waive a couple of the 4th liners?

I'm really not a big fan of Ceci but is the devil you know with a guy without back issues worth the risk that Gardiner comes in and can't play?  Our defense even with Barrie is still pretty thin at least until mid-year.  I'd probably rather ride Ceci out to the deadline and see if Sandin/Lliljegren are ready for a callup to bump out guys like Marincin/Holl/Harpur

 

[Bates]

I would rather have RD Ceci than LD Gardiner.

 

[Kin]

I'm really not a big fan of Ceci but is the devil you know with a guy without back issues worth the risk that Gardiner comes in and can't play?  Our defense even with Barrie is still pretty thin at least until mid-year.  I'd probably rather ride Ceci out to the deadline and see if Sandin/Lliljegren are ready for a callup to bump out guys like Marincin/Holl/Harpur

Obviously it's somewhat hard for us to say but I'd like to think that nobody is more up to date on Gardiner's back issues than the Leafs' medical staff. If they think it's a real concern, yeah, maybe you back off.