2019 Toronto Maple Leafs Offseason Discussion

[Bender]

I think Gardiner was holding out for the Leafs to bring something to the table, and most teams are wary of his back issue. There might be an opportunity to 1x5M him as a show-me if no one else bites.

Is there a scenario where they can absorb 5M?  The team below only has a little over 3M in cap space.

Hyman, Horton and Dermott on LTIR helps but even if they sign Kerfoot to 3.5M and Marner to 9M they would only have 3.178M in cap space if they went with a roster of

13 Forwards - Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson, Moore, Petan, Agostino, Shore, Spezza, Gauthier

7 Defensemen - Rielly, Muzzin, Barrie, Holl, Marincin, Ceci, Harpur

2 Goaltenders - Andersen, Hutchinson

Mikheyev is 225K more than some of the other discount 4th liners but has a decent shot at making the team.  Then when Hyman and Dermott return we have another cap crunch situation.  I don't think there really is a way for Gardiner to come back unless they trade another mid-6 forward and that doesn't seem like a great move given the concerns with Gardiner's back.

It hinges on dumping Ceci. If we are going all in on skill let's bloody well do it. Ceci is basically Zaitsev but possibly worse and for one year only. Why not dump him for a pick and resign Jake? I know there could be back issues but supposedly that should be more or less cleared up now or else why wouldn't he opt for off season surgery?

 

[Bates]

I think Gardiner was holding out for the Leafs to bring something to the table, and most teams are wary of his back issue. There might be an opportunity to 1x5M him as a show-me if no one else bites.

Is there a scenario where they can absorb 5M?  The team below only has a little over 3M in cap space.

Hyman, Horton and Dermott on LTIR helps but even if they sign Kerfoot to 3.5M and Marner to 9M they would only have 3.178M in cap space if they went with a roster of

13 Forwards - Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Kerfoot, Kapanen, Johnsson, Moore, Petan, Agostino, Shore, Spezza, Gauthier

7 Defensemen - Rielly, Muzzin, Barrie, Holl, Marincin, Ceci, Harpur

2 Goaltenders - Andersen, Hutchinson

Mikheyev is 225K more than some of the other discount 4th liners but has a decent shot at making the team.  Then when Hyman and Dermott return we have another cap crunch situation.  I don't think there really is a way for Gardiner to come back unless they trade another mid-6 forward and that doesn't seem like a great move given the concerns with Gardiner's back.

It hinges on dumping Ceci. If we are going all in on skill let's bloody well do it. Ceci is basically Zaitsev but possibly worse and for one year only. Why not dump him for a pick and resign Jake? I know there could be back issues but supposedly that should be more or less cleared up now or else why wouldn't he opt for off season surgery?

None of our LD were able to play the right side last season. Bringing Gardiner back for an extra million at minimum isn't a smart move.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think it's time to move on from Gardiner. Let's face it, he's not that good defensively and to pay him 6, 6+ mill just isn't good spending.

 

[Bender]

I think it's time to move on from Gardiner. Let's face it, he's not that good defensively and to pay him 6, 6+ mill just isn't good spending.

I don't really have time/energy to dig up the stats but remember when he went down with injury? We were at a loss for what our back end could do. We were so hamstrung without him it really should've shone a light on how valuable he really is, gaffes be damned. I don't think it's a poor use of spending when we have Cody freaking Ceci on the roster. Now THAT isn't good spending compared to what Gards can give you for an extra $1-1.5m.

 

[Bender]

I would rather have RD Ceci than LD Gardiner.

Considering how much Sens fans hate him and how bad he is statistically by every metric, you are literally just blinded by how much you dislike Jake. Mark my words, Ceci will make Jake look like a wizard.

 

[Bates]

I think it's time to move on from Gardiner. Let's face it, he's not that good defensively and to pay him 6, 6+ mill just isn't good spending.

I don't really have time/energy to dig up the stats but remember when he went down with injury? We were at a loss for what our back end could do. We were so hamstrung without him it really should've shone a light on how valuable he really is, gaffes be damned. I don't think it's a poor use of spending when we have Cody freaking Ceci on the roster. Now THAT isn't good spending compared to what Gards can give you for an extra $1-1.5m.

I'm not sure Gardiner being better than Marincin as an example makes the case for signing him over a RD?? We have LD coming but suffered from nothing on the left side until Barrie. We are a better team with Ceci on right than we are with bringing back Gardiner on Left.

 

[Kin]

I think it's time to move on from Gardiner. Let's face it, he's not that good defensively and to pay him 6, 6+ mill just isn't good spending.

I think most of us would if there were better options out there. I think the idea of bringing him back on a short term basis is about him being markedly better than Ceci.

 

[Bates]

I would rather have RD Ceci than LD Gardiner.

Considering how much Sens fans hate him and how bad he is statistically by every metric, you are literally just blinded by how much you dislike Jake. Mark my words, Ceci will make Jake look like a wizard.

Fans are not how I determine worth. How much do you think they would like Gardiner in that lineup?  Ceci will be used better and will be fine. And will be gone next year if he isn't when our kids are ready.

 

[Bates]

Why compare Ceci to Gardiner? They play opposite sides and not much suggests Babcock is going to use Gardiner on his opposite. Gardiner would probably play our 3rd D pairing, better ways to use that money.

 

[Bender]

Why compare Ceci to Gardiner? They play opposite sides and not much suggests Babcock is going to use Gardiner on his opposite. Gardiner would probably play our 3rd D pairing, better ways to use that money.

Because if Ceci is replacement level then who cares? Pay a replacement level RHD a bare bones contract to do the same thing.

 

[Bender]

I would rather have RD Ceci than LD Gardiner.

Considering how much Sens fans hate him and how bad he is statistically by every metric, you are literally just blinded by how much you dislike Jake. Mark my words, Ceci will make Jake look like a wizard.

Fans are not how I determine worth. How much do you think they would like Gardiner in that lineup?  Ceci will be used better and will be fine. And will be gone next year if he isn't when our kids are ready.

I think you are highly overrating Ceci.

 

[Kin]

Because if Ceci is replacement level then who cares? Pay a replacement level RHD a bare bones contract to do the same thing.

And, at some point, Babcock is going to have to accept that he may not always get the LD/RD split he thinks is ideal.

 

[Bates]

Why compare Ceci to Gardiner? They play opposite sides and not much suggests Babcock is going to use Gardiner on his opposite. Gardiner would probably play our 3rd D pairing, better ways to use that money.

Because if Ceci is replacement level then who cares? Pay a replacement level RHD a bare bones contract to do the same thing.

And Zaitsev?? I predict Ceci will be better than the guy we got rid of and provide Cap relief sooner,. Now why pay Gardiner to maybe play 3rd pairing LD when we are well aware of the warts? Doing the same thing over and over while hoping for better results is insanity.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I think it's time to move on from Gardiner. Let's face it, he's not that good defensively and to pay him 6, 6+ mill just isn't good spending.

I don't really have time/energy to dig up the stats but remember when he went down with injury? We were at a loss for what our back end could do. We were so hamstrung without him it really should've shone a light on how valuable he really is, gaffes be damned. I don't think it's a poor use of spending when we have Cody freaking Ceci on the roster. Now THAT isn't good spending compared to what Gards can give you for an extra $1-1.5m.

Let's not forget that Borgman, Rosen and Liljegren were all hurt when Gardiner went down so to say he was the reason we were at a loss, no. Our depth was depleted as well and we were stuck with Marincin.

I think most of us would if there were better options out there. I think the idea of bringing him back on a short term basis is about him being markedly better than Ceci.

There probably are better options out there but Gardiner isn't the solution here. If we're going to pay 6 mill, at least do it on a guy that's worthy of it, not just a guy who's "better" then Ceci. We don't even know if the Leafs are qualifying him yet.

 

[Bates]

I would rather have RD Ceci than LD Gardiner.

Considering how much Sens fans hate him and how bad he is statistically by every metric, you are literally just blinded by how much you dislike Jake. Mark my words, Ceci will make Jake look like a wizard.

Fans are not how I determine worth. How much do you think they would like Gardiner in that lineup?  Ceci will be used better and will be fine. And will be gone next year if he isn't when our kids are ready.

I think you are highly overrating Ceci.

Right back at ya with Gardiner.

 

[Guilt Trip]

And Zaitsev?? I predict Ceci will be better than the guy we got rid of and provide Cap relief sooner,. Now why pay Gardiner to maybe play 3rd pairing LD when we are well aware of the warts? Doing the same thing over and over while hoping for better results is insanity.

I hope you're right about Ceci. I do agree with you about Gardiner tho.
Question for all because I'm not sure. If Ceci sucks, can the Leafs bury his contract on the Marlies? That would gain us 4.5 mill??

 

[Bates]

We spent no Cap money, got a comparable RD back on shorter term, and still might not have enough money to fill out roster. Bringing back Gardiner makes little sense. Our D is better now than last season. That's a good thing.

 

[Bates]

And Zaitsev?? I predict Ceci will be better than the guy we got rid of and provide Cap relief sooner,. Now why pay Gardiner to maybe play 3rd pairing LD when we are well aware of the warts? Doing the same thing over and over while hoping for better results is insanity.

I hope you're right about Ceci. I do agree with you about Gardiner tho.
Question for all because I'm not sure. If Ceci sucks, can the Leafs bury his contract on the Marlies? That would gain us 4.5 mill??

No, you can only bury about a million I think.

 

[Kin]

There probably are better options out there but Gardiner isn't the solution here.

I really don't see who that better option is that's available as a UFA and would potentially be willing to sign here on a short term, undermarket deal. If there is one, I'd be all for it.

If we're going to pay 6 mill, at least do it on a guy that's worthy of it, not just a guy who's "better" then Ceci.

Well, if Gardiner's healthy I think he's absolutely worth 6 million a year but beyond that if it's a short term situation then him just being better than Ceci is worth giving him that money. It doesn't make sense for the team to be worse next year just on the principle of Gardiner not being worth a certain amount.

We don't even know if the Leafs are qualifying him yet.

I thought Ottawa qualified him already and the Leafs were bound by that. Because if he hadn't been qualified I thought he'd be a UFA already.

 

[Bender]

Why compare Ceci to Gardiner? They play opposite sides and not much suggests Babcock is going to use Gardiner on his opposite. Gardiner would probably play our 3rd D pairing, better ways to use that money.

Because if Ceci is replacement level then who cares? Pay a replacement level RHD a bare bones contract to do the same thing.

And Zaitsev?? I predict Ceci will be better than the guy we got rid of and provide Cap relief sooner,. Now why pay Gardiner to maybe play 3rd pairing LD when we are well aware of the warts? Doing the same thing over and over while hoping for better results is insanity.

1) I have no idea what you're trying to say with "And Zaitsev??" He needed to go, this doesn't mean Ceci needs to stay.

2) Tired cliche is tired. You can use that for anything to fit a narrative. We need as many good, skilled players as possible and Gards is far and away better than Ceci (I am aware of handedness, like I said pay a replacement level player replacement level money, not $4.5m)

3) Insanity is not being cognizant of what players bring to the table.