I didn't like the JT signing when it happened. I thought we were going to accumulate some high draft picks before a move like JT.
2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
The Leafs couldn't have forced him to undergo bilateral hip surgery just to get out of the contract.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Also, the league is well within their rights to get their own medical opinion in situations like this, and if they thought the whole thing was a ploy to get of the contract, you know they would have slapped the Leafs with a significant penalty. If there isn’t an injury that can be legitimately season (or career) ending, teams aren’t going to risk that.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
And at this point, it hasn't made any difference to the Edmonton Oilers in terms of winning a cup.
Of course salary matters in a cap NHL.
Do you think another team would not have paid Matthews the same or more on his last contract? He may have even got more per year from another team. Same goes for Nylander. Some for Marner this year. Either the Leafs pony up the cash or someone else will.
The issue isn't paying your really good players. The issue is digging through the scrap heap that is free agency, over paying for players and trading away highly valuable draft picks at the deadline.
Right now the Leafs have one d-man that they have drafted. ONE. The rest have either been traded for or signed through FA.
High end talent is extremely hard to come by in the NHL. The Leafs may never again have the talent of Matthews, Marner and Nylander on the team at the same time. Their big mistake was thinking the rebuild is over and to throw away picks and prospects. The mistakes had nothing to do with paying Matthews and Nylander and Marner.
This same mentality has plagued the Leafs for decades. "Draft schmaft" Cliff Fletcher. Continual trading away of prospects and draft capital to "go for it now".
I really don't get how he can't read the room. Just say what the people want to hear even if you don't 100% believe it. Effort was there but not execution, blah blah. Literally anything other than "I thought we played well."
Ozzie
Active member
Not bullshit.
Dubas was an amateur when he came in, and made massive amatuer mistakes with the best drafted talent of this franchise's history.
For example, when Chicago had their best drafted talent ever......Kane and Toews got (1) ELCs, then went (2) to Bridge Contracts, and they won and then they got (3) their Mega Contracts. Because they proved their worth. There was a carrot plus reciprocity in terms of the players proving results to the management.
Not so for this group of Leafy lovely lads..... who went from ELC, straight to having Mega Contracts. The Leafs had 2 of the top 3 paid players in the NHL (im including endorsements because its $$$ we are talking about). Plus Tavares makes 3 top paid NHL players of top 4!
One would expect repeat cups or dynasty with their payments and terms....thats how Chicago did it. Most fans like me would even be super happy with a valiant 3rd round exit. Making the finals would be a dream come true!!! A Cup and im falling to my knees weeping like a baby.
Never in the history of hockey has a group of talent been so badly mismanaged in terms of player-favorable agreements without the reciprocity of showing results.
And results don't lie: 5 wins of 16 says it all.
herman
Well-known member
I think he is just saying what he needs to hear. Marner thrives when he’s having fun and staying positive and helping others stay positive. He’s carrot-motivated and it is reflected in his perspective and approach. If he wallows in the dire straits, he simply cannot perform (see most playoffs).
I don’t doubt that he hates to lose or anything like that.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Trade Timmins for a pick and sign Kling for cheaper
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
You saying they have no drive or fire because of their salaries is BULLSHIT. Their lack of success has nothing to do with effort, desire.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
The problem was they made the playoffs the next year after finishing last to get Matthews. Those high draft picks weren't happening because they were "too" good and because of their early success, the plan changed. Hey we could be Ottawa or Buffalo who haven't seen the playoffs after the rebuild. Fact is our drafted players are really good.
True of any team sport. Hockey is not unique - that is the point.
Ozzie
Active member
No one here is saying they have no drive or desire. It's never binary like that. They all have drive and hunger and talent.
But when it comes down to the games that matter the most, its that extra 5% edge that can make the difference.. winners play through the toughest situations... like a broken sternum (you know who on FLA), or a punctured lung (you know who on BOS) etc...
It's no shame to sit out when you have a stomach bug like Matthews did in the first round. People need to be comfortable to recover. But it doesn't produce wins.
We can all sit here and disagree with this and that. But 5 is the stat.
We wait as long as Leaf management decides we wait. If they decide to re-sign Marner (they almost have to unless he wants to leave) and give Tavares another contract, so be it. They are playing more of a playoff-style overall and have a tougher defense and better goalies than previous years (health concerns noted) but the key is probably once again going to be whether the big guys can produce when it really matters. I am in "prove it" mode, I don't think they'll come through but hope to be wrong.
My sense is that it is the opposite with Marner - he cares too much and the pressure gets to him in those crucial games. I think of all the core group (maybe Rielly excepted), he would be the one I would be most excited to see hoist the Cup in Toronto. Home town kid ending the almost 60 year drought. What a moment that would be.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Well, you did and then followed it up with the extra 5% bit.
Ozzie
Active member
Where?
I don't want to argue but how did EDM sign Drisatal to a contract with so much more value than the Matthews deal? The agent? The player? The GM?
Draisaitl is riding a point streak that stretches across all 10 of Edmonton’s playoff games this season and leads the league in playoff scoring with 21 points, including three goals and eight helpers against Vancouver.
“That’s what we get paid to do, to step up in big moments,” the German forward said.
azzurri63
Well-known member
I really expected him to help our PP last year. Wasn't the case and if I recall it was almost like he had forgotten to shoot.
Contracts aside although the Oilers haven't won anything their 2 stars produce in the playoffs considerably more than any of ours. Drai and McD are producing at well over a point per game the last few years. I think most fans on here would be happy to see our core flourish in the playoffs and win a couple rounds. If they produced anywhere near that I'd be ok with it. Winning a cup takes a lot of things to go right but if your stars are no show for some games good luck with that.
azzurri63
Well-known member
Not so for this group of Leafy lovely lads..... who went from ELC, straight to having Mega Contracts. The Leafs had 2 of the top 3 paid players in the NHL (im including endorsements because its $$$ we are talking about). Plus Tavares makes 3 top paid NHL players of top 4!
You're bang on and I said that from day one. When Nylander held out and basically got what he wanted that was the start of Dubas' demise. We've coddled this core to no end and still happening.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
It's not an argument. It's a discussion. This is a discussion board. I have my viewpoints. You have yours. Probably both opinions absolutely meaningless. If I, or anyone else on this board REALLY knew what they were talking about, we wouldn't be sitting around in our underwear eating cheezy poofs posting on a message board. That's what my forum handle alludes to. Most of this is nothing but mental masturbation. Having said that.........
As a fan, I really don't care what the players are making. The only consideration is, is the term and dollar amount a hindrance to icing a competitive team for a cup. I don't think what 16,34,44,88,91 are making is what is a hindrance to the Leafs winning a cup.
As I have stated before, finding high end talent in the NHL is very hard. Look at all the years we had Sundin and no one to play with him. Either trading picks, or sending out prospects before giving them a chance. Leafs wouldn't sign Hyman, but they paid the same for Bertuzzi for next to no production. Not to mention what they are paying Domi.
I don't know why Draisaitl signed for what he did. Some people would do a job for $30 an hour. Some people wouldn't do the same job for $60 an hour.