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2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

bustaheims said:
That's a cop-out excuse. The roster is filled with quality NHL players who are fully capable of chipping in on offence. No one is asking them to carry the load, just to make contributions. For the most part, they have not.
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It's not, cap-hit playoff points per game our guys are garbage.
 
Just makes me laugh. The Leafs can't do anything without Marner's camp complaining about it like when someone doesn't kiss the ring for Trump. Willy got ripped by the media for years and it's water off a duck's back. Any perceived slight against Marner is a years long grievance. Give me a frigging break. It's always someone else's fault with that camp and unless you completely cave it's "messing" with the player. God I don't have the energy to really care about this again.
 
bustaheims said:
I don’t know. The way it’s getting portrayed makes it seem like his priority is to stick around. I wonder if the trade inquiry might have spooked him a little and made the possibility of playing somewhere else feel more real - especially since his response, per Friedman, was somewhere along the lines of “no, I want to sign here.” If he really doesn’t want to go elsewhere, that could actually spur him to be more willing to negotiate.

He doesn’t want to negotiate in-season, which is absolutely his right, but I think he’d prefer to stick around.
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The fact the Leafs were willing to go after Rantanen and offer him an 8 year contract tells me that management believes Marner will test the market. If they were confident Marner is staying, I don't think they even go down that road.
 
Zee said:
The fact the Leafs were willing to go after Rantanen and offer him an 8 year contract tells me that management believes Marner will test the market. If they were confident Marner is staying, I don't think they even go down that road.
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Or that they rather have Rantanen.
 
Zee said:
The fact the Leafs were willing to go after Rantanen and offer him an 8 year contract tells me that management believes Marner will test the market. If they were confident Marner is staying, I don't think they even go down that road.
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Where did you read they were willing to offer him an 8-year contract? The article says they were offered a trade that involved Marner and did their due diligence by asking Marner if he would consider it. That's all it was.

I think we often place more meaning in things than they deserve. If a GM is offered a player, it's asinine for them to not ask.
 
cw said:
I would add on one enormous difference beyond the points:
Matthews, Marner & Pastrnak are 200 foot players
Nylander is 100 foot player who doesn't hit or block shots.
No question, he's one of the most gifted players in those 100 feet.
But with Nylander, you are spending nearly the same money on a guy who only plays very roughly half a game.
That is probably a little harsh but there is some merit to it compared to the others.
On that basis, Matthews and Marner deserve salaries to be significantly north of Nylander because unlike Nylander, they're complete players. They should be a higher priority to sign
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It definitely has merit; which is why he got $4M less than Marner.

He's definitely not a defensive stalwart, but saying he plays roughly half the game is disingenuous.
 
Guilt Trip said:
Short memory? 88 was coming off a 61pt in 82 games when he signed for more than Pasta who was coming of 70 pts in 75 games before he signed his. Pasta has been at least a point per game player since the start of that deal. Willy was close to being a point per game guy in year 4, but wasn't until year 5. In the duration of their contracts Pasta has put up 494pts in 420 games. Willy 393 in 418 games.
Willy didn't play above his salary until year 4 and is nowhere near Pasta, yet when he signed his new deal last year, he got more then Pasta again. So Willy maxed out his value and you know what, all the power to him for maximizing his worth.

I personally don't care what any of them get paid but don't come with this angle that Marner isn't allowed to maximize his value like the 88 and 34 have. He shouldn't be held to a different standard where people are pissed off that he might not sign until the summer. Isn't that what most people wanted to begin with? Let's see what happens in the playoffs before signing any of them?
Well you might get your wish so stop whining.
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Did I step on a nerve? I'm not sure what it is I'm whining about nor have I ever mentioned Marner isn't allowed to max his value. I hope he gets $13.5M, he deserves it. and I hope he remains on the team. Also unsure what Pastarnak has to do with anything. Everyone knows that was a steal of a deal.
 
herman said:
My contention is not that Marner shouldn't maximize his value (he deserves that); my issue is with the framing that the Leafs front office has played games with this player and is at risk of losing him because of those negotiation shenanigans. I believe Marner wants to stay, but he also retains an agent that is notorious for sewering the reputations of his clients in a bid for marginal gains.
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The issue here is the Leafs have played games with him. Right from the ELC. They asked for performance bonuses when he originally signed and Lou said we don't do all of those and then turned around and gave Matthews everything he wanted, including those bonuses. That potentially cost Marner 6M. As CW pointed out, they were all in with signing 88 and 34. They were priorities in the off season. Not the same with Marner right? Nothing was off the table including potentially trading him right?

Tre could have said he was a priority to sign last summer to stop all the bullshit that ensued. How many times have you read/heard, Mitch has to show us what he can do in the playoffs before he gets his new deal? Mitch will be traded? You forget the shitshow last off season?
Again, this could have easily been avoided had Tre just said he's a priority to re-sign, even if his plan was to wait until this offseason. That never happened with 88 and 34 when they have been no better. Why is he held to a different level?

You think that didn't piss him off just a little bit? You bet it did and that's why he didn't invite the media to his fundraiser. And now we have the media and fans once again, dumping all over him for what? Because CJ has a feeling he's willing to go to free agency? Well no shit, he's earned that right. Funny thing is, like I said before, if he chooses that path, that's exactly what most want anyway.

And with all this going on Marner has never changed his stance. He has still maintained he wants to be a Leaf. So I agree Ferris has a reputation but if you think the Leafs are innocent in this, you are ignorant, like you suggested others are if they thought this wasn't Ferris' doing.
 
bustaheims said:
That's a cop-out excuse. The roster is filled with quality NHL players who are fully capable of chipping in on offence. No one is asking them to carry the load, just to make contributions. For the most part, they have not.
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That has been the biggest issue. Secondary scoring hasn't been up to snuff.
 
Bullfrog said:
Where did you read they were willing to offer him an 8-year contract? The article says they were offered a trade that involved Marner and did their due diligence by asking Marner if he would consider it. That's all it was.

I think we often place more meaning in things than they deserve. If a GM is offered a player, it's asinine for them to not ask.
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And to add, they also offered a different package to get Rants.
 
Guilt Trip said:
That has been the biggest issue. Secondary scoring hasn't been up to snuff.
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As Guru pointed out regarding playoff points per game:

It's NOT good. Since '16-'17 Marner and Matthews are 38 and 39 on the list of points per playoff game. Nylander is #59. Rielly #89. Tavares #122.

Add in cap hit per point you would see how little value the Leafs have gotten.
 
Bullfrog said:
Where did you read they were willing to offer him an 8-year contract? The article says they were offered a trade that involved Marner and did their due diligence by asking Marner if he would consider it. That's all it was.

I think we often place more meaning in things than they deserve. If a GM is offered a player, it's asinine for them to not ask.
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There's been follow up reporting that the Leafs were prepared to offer something in the neighbourhood of 13M, not that their conversation with Carolina/Rantenan ever reached that stage.
www.nytimes.com

Making sense of the Maple Leafs’ pursuit of Mikko Rantanen — and the Mitch Marner fallout

The Leafs' biggest move of the trade deadline was one that never ended up happening. What does that mean for the future?
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Trade discussions never progressed far enough to where the Leafs were in contract extension talks with Rantanen and agent Andy Scott, but they were believed to be willing to offer more than the eight-year, $96 million deal the Dallas Stars ultimately gave him.
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I'll say if the negotiation was healthy and the team felt more comfortable about the situation, they would not even bother asking Marner and just try to pivot to those alternative packages and probably not pursue a top-line winger as hard.
 
Bullfrog said:
Where did you read they were willing to offer him an 8-year contract? The article says they were offered a trade that involved Marner and did their due diligence by asking Marner if he would consider it. That's all it was.

I think we often place more meaning in things than they deserve. If a GM is offered a player, it's asinine for them to not ask.
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Read a few articles, heard some reporters comment that had Marner agreed to waive, Leafs were prepared to offer as much/more than Dallas did on the Rantanen contract. They don't even pursue the deal without a sign and trade extension for Rantanen. They have the uncertainty of what Mitch wants vs. what they believed they could have signed Rantanen for.
 
cabber24 said:
Who's going to step when you have 4 guys making 8 figures upfront? It better be the guys making 8 figures. They cannot afford a supporting cast!

Points last playoffs: Domi (4) Bertuzzi (4) Knies (3) Matthews (4) Marner (3) Nylander (3)
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Hyman was here for several seasons and his amazing playoff success of 1 goal for every playoff series he played got him a 7 year 5+ mil contract.
 
In the history of the trade deadline the Leafs have never acquired a 30 point player in the Matthews era. Scott Laughton with 27 points is the highest offensive outplayer we have acquired. O'Reilly had 19 points. Lafferty had 24 and Plekanec was in the 20s when they got him years ago. The Leafs really haven't done much to improve their forward depth outside of the offseason.
 
cabber24 said:
As Guru pointed out regarding playoff points per game:

It's NOT good. Since '16-'17 Marner and Matthews are 38 and 39 on the list of points per playoff game. Nylander is #59. Rielly #89. Tavares #122.

Add in cap hit per point you would see how little value the Leafs have gotten.
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No doubt it mainly rests with the core 4 but bottom 6/ D scoring has been a sore spot as well. You can't have L3 and L4 not doing anything but killing time out there. Last year was a disaster though because of the injuries. Had they been healthy with both 88 and 34, not to mention 74, I think they win that series easily despite Sammy. I think if Woll plays in game 7 they win it.
 
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