2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[cw]

Carolina and Toronto engaged in a conversation around trading Rantanen. Carolina's initial ask was Marner for Rantenan.
Leafs wanted Rantanen long term and were ready to go up to 12-13M x 8.

Leafs asked Marner if he'd waive his NMC for Carolina and he said no, so Leafs pivoted to offering Minten, Cowan, 2026 1st and 2027 1st. Carolina said, no thanks (not wanting to trade in conference either).

There has been a consistent response from Marner his whole career: he wants to play in Toronto.
He reaffirmed that last May and was willing to get talks underway at that time.
Then things went wild in the media, blaming Marner for the playoffs, speculating a trade and the team didn't do much to tamp that down for quite some time - maybe hoping it would improve their negotiating position with a player devalued in the media.
Treliving floated maybe moving on from Marner. Unlike Matthews & Nylander, signing Marner was not declared a priority.
Marner's camp was consistent: they would not waive his no movement clause and contract negotiations could happen with his agent during the season but Marner would not be commenting on them.

So I do not get why they would bother him with the Rantanen deal.
They told Leafs management repeatedly they did not want to waive his no movement clause nor have distractions during the season and that he wanted to remain in Toronto.
Marner's wife is pregnant - not a great time to take off to another city away from both their families.
In July, Marner can pick wherever he wants to go for a King's ransom.
It struck me as a tone deaf, stupid query made by desperate or foolish management.

To me, this is where it is going:
Marner is holding nearly all the cards as he always was over the last couple of years.
His agent loves to go to free agency to get maximum return for his client.
There are only 6 UFA forwards aged 32 or younger currently available with ppg .55 or better - probably less by July 1.
So it will be a massive bidding war for his services - a top 10 scorer for nothing but money.
They'll hold an auction, get a crazy high number, offer the Leafs a moderate home town discount and tell them to take it or lose him for nothing.
He owes them no favors after how they have treated him since last May.

The Leafs played games with him last summer. What goes around comes around.

 

[Guilt Trip]

There has been a consistent response from Marner his whole career: he wants to play in Toronto.
He reaffirmed that last May and was willing to get talks underway at that time.
Then things went wild in the media, blaming Marner for the playoffs, speculating a trade and the team didn't do much to tamp that down for quite some time - maybe hoping it would improve their negotiating position with a player devalued in the media.
Treliving floated maybe moving on from Marner. Unlike Matthews & Nylander, signing Marner was not declared a priority.
Marner's camp was consistent: they would not waive his no movement clause and contract negotiations could happen with his agent during the season but Marner would not be commenting on them.

So I do not get why they would bother him with the Rantanen deal.
They told Leafs management repeatedly they did not want to waive his no movement clause nor have distractions during the season and that he wanted to remain in Toronto.
Marner's wife is pregnant - not a great time to take off to another city away from both their families.
In July, Marner can pick wherever he wants to go for a King's ransom.
It struck me as a tone deaf, stupid query made by desperate or foolish management.

To me, this is where it is going:
Marner is holding nearly all the cards as he always was over the last couple of years.
His agent loves to go to free agency to get maximum return for his client.
There are only 6 UFA forwards aged 32 or younger currently available with ppg .55 or better - probably less by July 1.
So it will be a massive bidding war for his services - a top 10 scorer for nothing but money.
They'll hold an auction, get a crazy high number, offer the Leafs a moderate home town discount and tell them to take it or lose him for nothing.
He owes them no favors after how they have treated him since last May.

The Leafs played games with him last summer. What goes around comes around.

Well said CW. Couldn't agree more.

 

[Bullfrog]

....
Marner's wife is pregnant - not a great time to take off to another city away from both their families.
In July, Marner can pick wherever he wants to go for a King's ransom.
It struck me as a tone deaf, stupid query made by desperate or foolish management.
...

In fairness, we don't really have any clue on what's been said. I was once in a situation where something "I said" was relayed. It wasn't sensational or negative, but I was really surprised how inaccurate it was. Since then, I have close to zero faith anything in the public is accurate or faithfully presented. At the very least, I understand that context and subtlety are trimmed away from the truth.

I mean, my wife and I were having relationship troubles. I asked: "should we consider separating or do we want to work on repairing the relationship?." Moral: tone deaf to you or not, you need to ask, even if you're 99% sure what the answer will be.

 

[herman]

Defending Marner by making him sound like a super sensitive pissbaby?

 

[Guilt Trip]

In fairness, we don't really have any clue on what's been said. I was once in a situation where something "I said" was relayed. It wasn't sensational or negative, but I was really surprised how inaccurate it was. Since then, I have close to zero faith anything in the public is accurate or faithfully presented. At the very least, I understand that context and subtlety are trimmed away from the truth.

I mean, my wife and I were having relationship troubles. I asked: "should we consider separating or do we want to work on repairing the relationship?." Moral: tone deaf to you or not, you need to ask, even if you're 99% sure what the answer will be.

CJ on Overdrive today said there have been no contracts offered or talked about yet and pretty much it's not going to happen until the season is long over.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899246241940230308

 

[cw]

In fairness, we don't really have any clue on what's been said. I was once in a situation where something "I said" was relayed. It wasn't sensational or negative, but I was really surprised how inaccurate it was. Since then, I have close to zero faith anything in the public is accurate or faithfully presented. At the very least, I understand that context and subtlety are trimmed away from the truth.

I mean, my wife and I were having relationship troubles. I asked: "should we consider separating or do we want to work on repairing the relationship?." Moral: tone deaf to you or not, you need to ask, even if you're 99% sure what the answer will be.

Both Marner and Treliving have acknowledged the gist of what happened.
The Leafs pitched a trade.
Marner has said many, many, many, many times (paraphrased) "I want to play in Toronto"
We don't know the specific words of thise recent exchanges but the fact the Leafs ignored his desire to remain in Toronto and pitched the trade anyway is an action both parties admit the Leafs took.
That action is an affront to what Marner has said publicly he wanted many times.

He might be catching on to "You know what? These guys don't really want me here"
Why would you make a pitch like that if you were hoping he would stay?

Maybe it has reached the point after so many hints that they're not 100% sold on him hanging around where he's fed up and looking like he's going to move on this summer to a place that appreciates him so they had nothing to lose.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Both Marner and Treliving have acknowledged the gist of what happened.
The Leafs pitched a trade.
Marner has said many, many, many, many times (paraphrased) "I want to play in Toronto"
We don't know the specific words of thise recent exchanges but the fact the Leafs ignored his desire to remain in Toronto and pitched the trade anyway is an action both parties admit the Leafs took.
That action is an affront to what Marner has said publicly he wanted many times.

He might be catching on to "You know what? These guys don't really want me here"
Why would you make a pitch like that if you were hoping he would stay?

Maybe it has reached the point after so many hints that they're not 100% sold on him hanging around where he's fed up and looking like he's going to move on this summer to a place that appreciates him so they had nothing to lose.

Treliving has a hockey team to run. If Mitch's desire is to continue being a Leaf past this season, he sure isn't acting like it.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Treliving has a hockey team to run. If Mitch's desire is to continue being a Leaf past this season, he sure isn't acting like it.

And how's that?

 

[Bullfrog]

Maybe it has reached the point after so many hints that they're not 100% sold on him hanging around where he's fed up and looking like he's going to move on this summer to a place that appreciates him so they had nothing to lose.

Discussing a trade option does not equal admitting you don't want him here.

I find it a bit bizarre how much people, including you, are reading into this. We really have zero idea how the conversation went.

I'm quite confident the Maple Leafs appreciate him. I'm quite confident Marner knows this and has been told this by his GM. I'm also confident Marner understands the business side of things, including a GM approaching him with information he's received regarding a trade offer. The GM can genuinely appreciate Marner and even desperately want him to stay; but to quote Ozzie, it'd be negligent to not explore options as they arise.

If I'm Treliving's boss and find out he was offered Rantanen etc for Marner and didn't ask the question, I'd be having some pretty serious conversations.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

And how's that?

What's the hold up? We don't know for certain. I'm sure by now Treliving has asked for numbers. It seems as though, according to reports that Marner's camp doesn't want to negotiate during the season. Why? Many players sign in the last year of their contract. But somehow Mitch can't do that. I would think if Treliving has some sort of idea of what's going on with Marner, he wouldn't ask him to waive his no trade.

So it takes two to Tango. Maybe Treliving fumbled the negotiations last summer. I don't know. The entire situation just seems kinda weird.

His agent has him conviced to go to July 1. Get some crazy offers and go back to the Leafs and say, here, this is what we want. That's his right. But it doesn't really show he wants to remain a Leaf above all else.

 

[Guilt Trip]

What's the hold up? We don't know for certain. I'm sure by now Treliving has asked for numbers. It seems as though, according to reports that Marner's camp doesn't want to negotiate during the season. Why? Many players sign in the last year of their contract. But somehow Mitch can't do that. I would think if Treliving has some sort of idea of what's going on with Marner, he wouldn't ask him to waive his no trade.

So it takes two to Tango. Maybe Treliving fumbled the negotiations last summer. I don't know. The entire situation just seems kinda weird.

His agent has him conviced to go to July 1. Get some crazy offers and go back to the Leafs and say, here, this is what we want. That's his right. But it doesn't really show he wants to remain a Leaf above all else.

He's exercising his right and trying to maximize what will be probably his biggest and last meaningful contract. He's not doing anything wrong but being treated like he has been. So it seems at one point they were open to negotiating during the season. CJ said today that there have been no offers or talks. What changed if that's the case? Again Marner's camp has said nothing lately.

Here's a blip from a SN article on Sept 24 2024....

One thing that’s become very clear is the public perception of Marner is very different than his teammates’ perception of him. (More on this at a later date.) We taped an interview that will air during the first intermission of Sunday’s pre-season game against Ottawa. He did answer one contract question: Some players feel very strongly that once the puck drops on the regular season, there should be no negotiations. Does he feel that way?
“I don't know if I would say that,” he answered. “But I think for my sake, unless it gets really important or (I’m) really needed, I’m going to let my agent and Brad do all the talking and figure stuff out. I'm just going to focus on playing hockey and trying to help this team win games.”

 

[Guilt Trip]

I don't listen to this guy but someone sent it to me...first time I've actually agreed with him 100%.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899257779489038512