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2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

Ozzie said:
I agree with your statement. I would be very surprised if Leafs can with 2 or 3 of the games against Florida and I would also be surprised if they can get through the first round.

Stolarz and Tanev are influential enough to steal a game or two, maybe that can make the difference.
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If they get the defense healthy and can somehow return to playing like they did at the start of the season, they could win a round or two. Maybe even more if the stars finally come through (not likely especially with whatever is going on with Matthews). But an injury to one of the top 5 dmen (especially Tanev, or McCabe) will spell the end, unless the goalies stand on their heads.

This game against Florida should tell us a lot. Florida has the Tkachuk injury plus they are down a defenseman - no excuses even if Tanev is still out. Show up on time, play smart for 60 minutes, try looking like a contender instead of a pretender.
 
herman said:
Carolina and Toronto engaged in a conversation around trading Rantanen. Carolina's initial ask was Marner for Rantenan.
Leafs wanted Rantanen long term and were ready to go up to 12-13M x 8.

Leafs asked Marner if he'd waive his NMC for Carolina and he said no, so Leafs pivoted to offering Minten, Cowan, 2026 1st and 2027 1st. Carolina said, no thanks (not wanting to trade in conference either).
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1899890143126839742
The thing I missed in the summary was Carolina asking for a Knies package (smart choice) and the Leafs counter offering some magic beans instead.
 
Knies - Matthews - Nylander
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
McMann - Laughton - Jarnkrok
Lorentz - Kampf - Holmberg

Domi is an awkward fit on this team. I hope he’s moved this off-season.
 
herman said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1899890143126839742
The thing I missed in the summary was Carolina asking for a Knies package (smart choice) and the Leafs counter offering some magic beans instead.
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The magic beans apparently being Cowan, Minten and two 1sts and some say plus someone else.

If Carolina had taken that deal and the Leafs signed Rantanen, where is the cap space to re-sign Marner? and where are the assets to get Laughton & Carlo? Come July 1st, that deal would effectively be Rantanen for Marner, Cowan, Minten and two 1sts and some say plus someone else.

If Marner heard about that, you can understand why he might be a little rattled.

I think the Leafs were lucky the Canes didn't take that deal.
 
cw said:
The magic beans apparently being Cowan, Minten and two 1sts and some say plus someone else.

If Carolina had taken that deal and the Leafs signed Rantanen, where is the cap space to re-sign Marner? and where are the assets to get Laughton & Carlo? Come July 1st, that deal would effectively be Rantanen for Marner, Cowan, Minten and two 1sts and some say plus someone else.

If Marner heard about that, you can understand why he might be a little rattled.

I think the Leafs were lucky the Canes didn't take that deal.
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Could have had Rantanen and Marner re-sign but it would have meant Tavares would need to take something like 8-years/$3m. Lose Jarnkrok, Reaves, Kampf in the offseason. They could have fit something under the cap but be even more top heavy.
 
dappleganger said:
Could have had Rantanen and Marner re-sign but it would have meant Tavares would need to take something like 8-years/$3m. Lose Jarnkrok, Reaves, Kampf in the offseason. They could have fit something under the cap but be even more top heavy.
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You can't get rid of Kampf's contract - too much signing bonus money - 2nd/3rd round pick? to eat it
You also wouldn't have Laughton & Carlo and would have no cap space and little in assets to replace them.
 
dappleganger said:
Would have to send out Domi or Woll as well to get the numbers to work. But it's possible:

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That seems like a pipe dream
Knies @ $4M x 2 yrs? He's looking like he'll crack 30 goals
Marner @ $12.5M Top UFA this year in a year where the cap jumps? Really doubt it
Boston is going to give the Leafs a 7th rounder to take Reaves? why would they do that?
Ditto for Seattle with Jarnkrok

What assets did you trade to get Carlo? They were used to get Rantanen Why would Boston give him away for nothing?
Ditto for the 1st rounder for Laughton
Don't know about the Woll deal either.

That is not that close to reality.
 
cw said:
That seems like a pipe dream
Knies @ $4M x 2 yrs? He's looking like he'll crack 30 goals
Marner @ $12.5M Top UFA this year in a year where the cap jumps? Really doubt it
Boston is going to give the Leafs a 7th rounder to take Reaves? why would they do that?
Ditto for Seattle with Jarnkrok

What assets did you trade to get Carlo? They were used to get Rantanen Why would Boston give him away for nothing?
Ditto for the 1st rounder for Laughton
Don't know about the Woll deal either.

That is not that close to reality.
Click to expand...
None of it is close to reality.
 
cw said:
That seems like a pipe dream
Knies @ $4M x 2 yrs? He's looking like he'll crack 30 goals
Marner @ $12.5M Top UFA this year in a year where the cap jumps? Really doubt it
Boston is going to give the Leafs a 7th rounder to take Reaves? why would they do that?
Ditto for Seattle with Jarnkrok

What assets did you trade to get Carlo? They were used to get Rantanen Why would Boston give him away for nothing?
Ditto for the 1st rounder for Laughton
Don't know about the Woll deal either.

That is not that close to reality.
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Sorry, CW those trades were not anything I think or suggest would happen. Puckpedia makes you make a trade to get a player off the books. This was simply just the hypothetical and theoretical ability that that the Leafs could fit Rantanen and Marner on the roster.

By no means was I suggesting this would have been a viable way to build out the Leafs roster but just how they theoretically could have done it.
 
Let’s play a little game.

Say the Leafs had retained Keefe. And built this same roster. Including the same moves at the deadline.

Would the Leafs be higher or lower in the standings?

I’d have them down as a good chance at the Presidents Trophy.

I’ve still no idea how they’ll fare in the playoffs, but I’m not optimistic it’ll actually be any better playing this Berube style with this roster.
 
Arn said:
Let’s play a little game.

Say the Leafs had retained Keefe. And built this same roster. Including the same moves at the deadline.

Would the Leafs be higher or lower in the standings?

I’d have them down as a good chance at the Presidents Trophy.

I’ve still no idea how they’ll fare in the playoffs, but I’m not optimistic it’ll actually be any better playing this Berube style with this roster.
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I agree. I think Keefe's style with this D and goalies would be better. As for the playoffs, I think they can get their shit together but the goalies will have to be lights out. I've got nothing against Berube but I wouldn't have hired him. I don't think his style fits the players. You have high skilled players playing a dump and chase game.
Here's an interesting fact.....There have only been 3 head coaches in NHL history to have won the cup with 2 different teams while being head coach. Bowman(Habs, Pens, Wings, and Gorman(Hawks, Maroons), Irvin(Habs, Leafs).
 
Nylander last night after the game: "I don’t think that we get to our game until at some point in the third period."

Berube: "They need to make their mind up in the room about the importance of the start of the game and 60 minutes of urgency"

This has been a thing for 8 years (plus) with this player group. They don't start games on time, they let opponents dictate the game, they play down to weaker opponents. Oh sure, they'll turn it on for 10 or 15 minutes (or maybe a whole period) and save some games, but it's a character flaw that isn't going away no matter who the coach is. The lack of urgency shows up throughout the games - the weak starts, the poor PPs where they lose all the puck battles or settle for perimeter play, the defensive zone where they fail to clear pucks.

Maybe they get lucky and ride a hot goalie to a series win (or two) but this looks more like an early first round exit team to me, especially if they play one of the Florida teams.
 
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dappleganger said:
Sorry, CW those trades were not anything I think or suggest would happen. Puckpedia makes you make a trade to get a player off the books. This was simply just the hypothetical and theoretical ability that that the Leafs could fit Rantanen and Marner on the roster.

By no means was I suggesting this would have been a viable way to build out the Leafs roster but just how they theoretically could have done it.
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But Laughton and Carlo are included in your Puckpedia roster with the same assets that were also used to theoretically get Rantanen so your roster is impossible because the same assets can't be traded twice by the Leafs to obtain different players. Because Leafs have very limited assets and Cowan was also used theoretically to get Rantanen, the Leafs don't have anything else like the assets they gave up to get Laughton & Carlo. So your roster is unrealistic on that level beyond some of the trades or contracts you proposed that also look unrealistic.

It is virtually impossible for the Leafs to add Rantanen and keep Marner and most of their roster that currently lacks the cap space to have 23 players. Something has to give. If I'm Marner looking at that attempt, the most likely plan looked like get Rantanen and keep everyone else but Marner. A constant criticism has been the core 4 had the Leafs cap usage consuming too much for top forwards and now they're adding a 5th (with a reduction in Tavares salary)? No way. What did Nylander say when they asked him to waive his no trade so they could get Rantanen? Ditto for Matthews? Crickets.

Which may explain why Marner would not commit that he would be re-signing during his post trade deadline media scrum. Treliving has floated maybe trading Marner since last spring. Some in the media declared Marner not being in the opening day lineup a certainty. Treliving did not declare Marner a priority to re-sign like he did for Matthews & Nylander. His agent probably said "I bet we can find a GM who really wants you July 1st. Lets check that out and see how you feel then. The Leafs GM whose actions reveal that he doesn't really want you would then have to explain how he lost the teams top regular season and playoffs scorer over the last 9 seasons who had declared he wanted to re-sign and that he lost him for nothing."

Maybe there are some issues in the locker room over this ...
 
Oh, I bet there are some issues. I think the realization that management basically wanted to swap out Marner for Rantanen was a real wake-up call that rattled Marner and probably his buddies (esp Matthews, I don't think Nylander cares about any of it). He hasn't looked the same since that news came out.

At this point, I don't think Marner will re-sign with the Leafs unless maybe (and even this is not a guarantee) (1) the Leafs offer more $ than anyone else, and (2) the team somehow pulls together and makes a real deep playoff run - at least to the conference finals. Maybe then he'll feel like it's worth staying. Though maybe even in that case the Leafs decide to part ways.
 
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