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2024 Blue Jays

bustaheims said:
Joe said:
The other thing I?d add is that, not counting this batch of trades because we don?t know yet, but even their trading for prospects have been pretty lame. What did they get for Sanchez, Stroman and Donaldson for example. What?s left from those trades? Zach Pop maybe? I don?t every remember who the jays got.

Stroman brought back Woods Richardson, who was flipped for Berrios. The others saw nothing of value for the Jays.

Thx. As I was typing that there was something in the back of my head that a piece was part of the Berrios trade but I wasn?t sure and honestly didn?t look it up.

But the free for all that Anthopolis went on really didn?t have long term impact.

Even Syndergaard started out hot but his career kinda flamed out.
 
Joe said:
Thx. As I was typing that there was something in the back of my head that a piece was part of the Berrios trade but I wasn?t sure and honestly didn?t look it up.

But the free for all that Anthopolis went on really didn?t have long term impact.

Even Syndergaard started out hot but his career kinda flamed out.

Yeah. Unless you're trading a really significant piece that has years of control left, most of the time, you're not getting high-end prospects back. Getting any sort of MLB contributor from the types of pieces the Jays moved would be a win. Occasionally, you pluck a gem, but, you're mostly looking adding potential bullpen arms, bench bats, and such. From the initial looks of things, the Jays did well there - a potential back of the rotation starter and some others who could contribute to the MLB team in some way in the next few year. Not likely that they added any real regulars or needlemovers, but they also didn't trade away any of those types, either.
 
So basically there's no real way to blow up a team and get good assets back/our drafting has sucked? How do you do a rebuild in the MLB? I just don't get how a team with Vladdy and maybe Bo + pitching can be so much better next year.
 
Bender said:
So basically there's no real way to blow up a team and get good assets back/our drafting has sucked? How do you do a rebuild in the MLB? I just don't get how a team with Vladdy and maybe Bo + pitching can be so much better next year.

I mean, it?s basically the same as any other sports, outside of not being able to acquire draft picks. Draft and develop is the key. Also, do well with international signings. After that, it?s about trading for MLB/MLB ready assets using your prospects and quality free agent signings. If you look at the top teams in the league right now, that?s how they?ve done it. Unless you?re moving high end pieces in their primes, you?re not likely to get significant pieces back - though, it does happen on occasion. The Jays basically stole Teoscar from
Houston in the Liriano trade.
 
Bender said:
So basically there's no real way to blow up a team and get good assets back/our drafting has sucked? How do you do a rebuild in the MLB? I just don't get how a team with Vladdy and maybe Bo + pitching can be so much better next year.

There are just so many intangibles. I mean if Vladdy was hitting like this for the first 3 months and Springer, Bichette and Kirk each, at least, were hitting over .700 ops, which is a very reasonable, if not, soft, target, then 1 of the 3 WC spots would be looking quite attainable (And that's to say nothing of the Jays losing their 4 best RP for large durations of the season). Every year anything can happen, just as any team sneaking into the playoffs on a WC or weak division can go on to win a Championship (Hello St Louis). Then you have the Texas Rangers, who, after winning the World Series last year, have gone on to a 52-57 record this year. Look at how Boston immediately turned it around. It's definitely possible, particularly since the Jays have gone under the tax threshold with this deadline and have a ton of $ to spend in FA. Now success may not be probable considering the obvious coaching and development issues plaguing this management's team/regime but it is certainly possible.
 
Bender said:
So basically there's no real way to blow up a team and get good assets back/our drafting has sucked? How do you do a rebuild in the MLB? I just don't get how a team with Vladdy and maybe Bo + pitching can be so much better next year.

If you're looking for an example of what a tear it down rebuild would have looked like for the Jays, on the optimistic end you could look at what the Orioles who have just been crushing the Jays have done.

Back in 2018, The Orioles were cratering. The record was awful, and it was not a fluke. For example, Chris Davis had turned from a 50 HR guy into one of the worst hitters in baseball. BUT, they still had a bunch of young, controllable talent which they'd been building around. Manny Machado was an All Star.

They traded off Machado, a young Kevin Gausman, Zach Britton, Jonathons Schoop. They got back a lot of players. However, if you're looking at the current Orioles roster, what they really did was really lean in to being terrible for 4 years. They wouldn't win more than 60 games until 2022, and when you look at the current rosters leaders, Rutschman, Henderson, Cowser, Mountcastle, Westberg, Rodriguez, were all Orioles draft picks.

So in the end, the level of risk in giving the Vladdy + Bo Jays 1 more year is not the same as it might be in an NHL context, where you'd be hoping for a Ready to go prospect, last years 1st rounder and next years 1st in return from someone. The return on the extra year of control will be flashy, but is not guaranteed to be a big part of the next contender.

If Vladdy hits like an All Star and not like he did in April/May. If Bo goes back to being Bo. If Springer and Kirk can go back to being at least average hitters. If the bullpen is a little healthier. If they do a better job of picking their next DH than Justin Turner.

A lot of Ifs.

If not, it could be 4 very painful years before - optimistically - we see whatever the next version looks like.
 
IJustLurkHere said:
Bender said:
So basically there's no real way to blow up a team and get good assets back/our drafting has sucked? How do you do a rebuild in the MLB? I just don't get how a team with Vladdy and maybe Bo + pitching can be so much better next year.

If you're looking for an example of what a tear it down rebuild would have looked like for the Jays, on the optimistic end you could look at what the Orioles who have just been crushing the Jays have done.

Back in 2018, The Orioles were cratering. The record was awful, and it was not a fluke. For example, Chris Davis had turned from a 50 HR guy into one of the worst hitters in baseball. BUT, they still had a bunch of young, controllable talent which they'd been building around. Manny Machado was an All Star.

They traded off Machado, a young Kevin Gausman, Zach Britton, Jonathons Schoop. They got back a lot of players. However, if you're looking at the current Orioles roster, what they really did was really lean in to being terrible for 4 years. They wouldn't win more than 60 games until 2022, and when you look at the current rosters leaders, Rutschman, Henderson, Cowser, Mountcastle, Westberg, Rodriguez, were all Orioles draft picks.

So in the end, the level of risk in giving the Vladdy + Bo Jays 1 more year is not the same as it might be in an NHL context, where you'd be hoping for a Ready to go prospect, last years 1st rounder and next years 1st in return from someone. The return on the extra year of control will be flashy, but is not guaranteed to be a big part of the next contender.

If Vladdy hits like an All Star and not like he did in April/May. If Bo goes back to being Bo. If Springer and Kirk can go back to being at least average hitters. If the bullpen is a little healthier. If they do a better job of picking their next DH than Justin Turner.

A lot of Ifs.

If not, it could be 4 very painful years before - optimistically - we see whatever the next version looks like.

Its been a pretty painful watch most years of my life (outside 92/93), much like the Leafs.
 
Small sample size and all. But obviously a weight lifted off all these shoulders

  Yusei Kikuchi was making his anticipated debut with the Houston Astros, but the Blue Jays skipper happened to catch some highlights of Kikuchi?s outing, in which he struck out 11 across 5 2/3 innings against the Tampa Bay Rays.

Elsewhere, other Blue Jays who were traded are impacting their new teams. Justin Turner hit a grand slam for the Seattle Mariners on Friday, helping them to a 10-2 rout of the Philadelphia Phillies, and Yimi Garc?a has pitched three scoreless innings for the club. Danny Jansen has gone 4-for-7 in two games with the Boston Red Sox, and Trevor Richards pitched a scoreless inning for the Minnesota Twins.


https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5678495/2024/08/03/blue-jays-talk-how-to-stop-aaron-judge/?source=user_shared_article
 
https://x.com/mlb/status/1827089258726719765
It?s happening! Jansen was batting when play was suspended, so he will be catching against his pinch hitter.
 
herman said:
It?s happening! Jansen was batting when play was suspended, so he will be catching against his pinch hitter.

If had faced a few more pitches, he could have ended up catching a pitch he?d be charged with striking out on, but, alas, as he only faced one before the game was called, he won?t even get credited with a plate appearance.
 
bustaheims said:
herman said:
It?s happening! Jansen was batting when play was suspended, so he will be catching against his pinch hitter.

If he had faced a few more pitches, he could have ended up catching a pitch he?d be charged with striking out on, but, alas, as he only faced one before the game was called, he won?t even get credited with a plate appearance.


It's already hilarious enough. I would hate to have to be the scorekeeper trying to figure out how to log that Jansen threw out his pinch hitter on an attempted steal or something.

https://x.com/ScoringChanges/status/1828082305526804878
 
herman said:
It's already hilarious enough. I would hate to have to be the scorekeeper trying to figure out how to log that Jansen threw out his pinch hitter on an attempted steal or something.

That wouldn't be so difficult. If they were to reach base, Jansen's part in the whole thing from the batting/running perspective would be over from a scoring perspective. Would still be a fun footnote on the whole thing, though.
 
The chain on this is great.

The Kubel home run was right over the plate in the strikezone.  Higashioka's home run was a meatball thrown by a position player so while it was higher than Clement's hit it was on a tee.

The Jays offense is fun again though.  Hitting home runs and beating up on garbage teams.
 
L K said:
The Jays offense is fun again though.  Hitting home runs and beating up on garbage teams.

https://twitter.com/ArdenZwelling/status/1827074586346651751
If it goes back to sucking in a couple of days...
 
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