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2024 Blue Jays

Kiermaier is still being credited with a +0.5 WAR on the season entirely due to defense.  He's not a 10 million dollar player.  The smartest thing for teams would be to not claim him.  Make the Jays buy him out and then sign him for league minimum to be your 4th outfielder.

Also, once again, the NHL is stupid when the David Kampf of the Leafs is making 10.5M and we are bitching about Marner making 11M.  Screw the salary cap.
 
L K said:
Kiermaier is still being credited with a +0.5 WAR on the season entirely due to defense.  He's not a 10 million dollar player.  The smartest thing for teams would be to not claim him.  Make the Jays buy him out and then sign him for league minimum to be your 4th outfielder.
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Though, really, unless the Jays have someone they need to get back on the roster (they don't, as far as I can tell) or a prospect who's ready to take over on a full-time basis (also, not seeing anyone fitting that description), there's no reason for the Jays to release him until after the trade deadline (if they even bother, at that point). The season is lost and they have to pay him any way. They're just continuing a trend we've seen since MLB eliminated their two deadline system - teams place guys on the fringe of their rosters on waivers to see if anyone will take them on at full freight. If not, then they'll try to trade them while including cash to cover significant portions of their salary. It's an attempt to get under the luxury tax threshold.

L K said:
Also, once again, the NHL is stupid when the David Kampf of the Leafs is making 10.5M and we are bitching about Marner making 11M.  Screw the salary cap.
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I get your point, and while MLB doesn't have a true cap, the luxury tax - and the associated penalties with exceeding it - has acted as a soft cap. The salary discrepancies are much more reflective of revenue differences than systemic differences. If the NHL had revenue numbers like MLB, we'd be bitching about Marner earning $30M+, how that's limiting the team's ability to fully flex their financial strengths in free agency and potentially having a negative impact on their draft position.
 
bustaheims said:
It's an attempt to get under the luxury tax threshold.
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Which would decrease the base tax rate for next season from 50% to 20%.

Whether we agree with it or not, all reports are indicate that they will try to compete again next year so getting below the tax this season would give them quite a bit more to spend next season.
 
Bo would welcome a trade... thanks bud for putting that one out there. That's really going to help your trade value. I was hopeful someway somehow they could salvage this roster around Bo and Vlad but if he doesn't want to be here the writing is on the wall. I was more content when they were supposed to suck. It was harder being a fan when they were supposed to be good and sucked. Watching ball with zero investment is easier than watching this. This era of "contention" has come to an end rather abruptly.

Here's to another decade of rebuilding.
 
cabber24 said:
Bo would welcome a trade... thanks bud for putting that one out there. That's really going to help your trade value. I was hopeful someway somehow they could salvage this roster around Bo and Vlad but if he doesn't want to be here the writing is on the wall. I was more content when they were supposed to suck. It was harder being a fan when they were supposed to be good and sucked. Watching ball with zero investment is easier than watching this. This era of "contention" has come to an end rather abruptly.

Here's to another decade of rebuilding.
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What kills me is they were never really all that close with this core. Would Shohei even have made that much of a difference?
 
Bender said:
cabber24 said:
Bo would welcome a trade... thanks bud for putting that one out there. That's really going to help your trade value. I was hopeful someway somehow they could salvage this roster around Bo and Vlad but if he doesn't want to be here the writing is on the wall. I was more content when they were supposed to suck. It was harder being a fan when they were supposed to be good and sucked. Watching ball with zero investment is easier than watching this. This era of "contention" has come to an end rather abruptly.

Here's to another decade of rebuilding.
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What kills me is they were never really all that close with this core. Would Shohei even have made that much of a difference?
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I think the year they traded away the likes of Teoscar they got all those trades wrong. If they?d got those right, maybe they?d have been close.

 
There's been a few players over the last few years that left the roster that I think really hurt the group. They may not have been the top players on the team but they were "glue" players that seemed to keep the team in the right frame of mind.

I look to Teoscar, Semien and Gurriel Jr as 3 of these players.
 
So much for the sustainable winner year-over-year Shapiro was supposed to implement when we were all supposed to fall over his Cleveland successes when he was hired.
 
Peter D. said:
So much for the sustainable winner year-over-year Shapiro was supposed to implement when we were all supposed to fall over his Cleveland successes when he was hired.
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Shatkins management name is correct.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
There's been a few players over the last few years that left the roster that I think really hurt the group. They may not have been the top players on the team but they were "glue" players that seemed to keep the team in the right frame of mind.

I look to Teoscar, Semien and Gurriel Jr as 3 of these players.
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Pretty good group of players!

Ironically, the shift from offense focused Teoscar & Gurriel -> defense focused Varsho & Kiermaier would probably have been fine if it hadn't also coincided with Kirk forgetting how to hit (people here may not like him, but he won the Silver Slugger in '22), age catching up to George Springer, Vladdy spending 18 months looking human, Bo 2024, Turner 2024, etc. etc.

In the outfield, you can genuinely argue the improved defense balances the loss of Teo and Gurriel's bats. But the team wide inability to hit, the outfield change is the most visible.

And as a group, they're certainly not as much fun as they were.
 
IJustLurkHere said:
OldTimeHockey said:
There's been a few players over the last few years that left the roster that I think really hurt the group. They may not have been the top players on the team but they were "glue" players that seemed to keep the team in the right frame of mind.

I look to Teoscar, Semien and Gurriel Jr as 3 of these players.
Click to expand...

Pretty good group of players!

Ironically, the shift from offense focused Teoscar & Gurriel -> defense focused Varsho & Kiermaier would probably have been fine if it hadn't also coincided with Kirk forgetting how to hit (people here may not like him, but he won the Silver Slugger in '22), age catching up to George Springer, Vladdy spending 18 months looking human, Bo 2024, Turner 2024, etc. etc.

In the outfield, you can genuinely argue the improved defense balances the loss of Teo and Gurriel's bats. But the team wide inability to hit, the outfield change is the most visible.

And as a group, they're certainly not as much fun as they were.
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I think you make an astute observation and after the results of last year, they definitely should have adjusted course, instead they doubled down, specifically bringing back Kevin Kiermaier.

They needed to balance the offence with defence (and the front office could have brought back Teo, or at least attempt to, this past offseason instead of KK returning).

They desperately needed more offence, specifically home runs, in the lineup. There is no protection in the batting lineup. Besides Vladdy, teams are not scared to pitch to any other player. Teams need that and this year's Jays don't have it.

Oh, also, the bullpen is terrible. Harder to pin that on Atkins or Shapiro.

 
IJustLurkHere said:
And as a group, they're certainly not as much fun as they were.
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I really, really think this was such a major part of it all.

I know in hockey we talk about ?intangibles? and some people scoff and all. But when you?re in a team environment, playing loose and enjoying yourself it can make such a difference by just taking the pressure off. It seems like being ?more mature? or whatever just kind of stifled the natural exuberance.

 
https://twitter.com/downtoblack/status/1818038809306800507
Amazing read on the pitch, and then squared up enough barrel to cut this ball out of the park.

https://x.com/downtoblack/status/1817933362624967135
Routinely taking away the outer half of the plate is going to be huge
 
I?ll give Shatkins this - they?re pulling in a pretty decent haul of prospects without having moved any really significant pieces.
 
Arn said:
IJustLurkHere said:
And as a group, they're certainly not as much fun as they were.
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I really, really think this was such a major part of it all.

I know in hockey we talk about ?intangibles? and some people scoff and all. But when you?re in a team environment, playing loose and enjoying yourself it can make such a difference by just taking the pressure off. It seems like being ?more mature? or whatever just kind of stifled the natural exuberance.
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While we can't ever know for sure how it impacted their results, I suspect you're right. Personally I loved the kids up the end of the dugout having fun. In every walk of life, people do their jobs better when they enjoy doing them.

I find the old school baseball mentality where everything has to be super serious and dry very strange. These guys travel around playing baseball 6 times a week. If you DON'T love it, that would be hell. If you do... I wish I loved my job half as much as Vladdy, Teo and Gurriel used to love being up the end of the Blue Jays dugout.
 
https://x.com/bnicholsonsmith/status/1818094797078614020
Can someone explain this in Hockey?
Did we get Mavrik Bourque+ for an expiring Calle Jarnkrok?
 
herman said:
https://twitter.com/bnicholsonsmith/status/1818094797078614020
Can someone explain this in Hockey?
Did we get Mavrik Bourque+ for an expiring Calle Jarnkrok?
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Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat.  I have no idea what Houston was thinking.

Also Vlad Jr needs an extension yesterday.

He went 7 for 10 last night with 2 home runs, 3 doubles, an intentional walk and two of his outs were a 103MPH and 111MPH lineouts

Since the start of May he has been elite.
 
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