General Leafs Talk v2.0

[Redleaf]

The Leafs have to win 24 more games to have an above 50% chance of making the playoffs.

With continued strong goaltending and the return of some key personnel in the coming weeks I give them a 50% chance of winning 24 games or more. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Warning: graphs.  Warning: corsi

 

[maplesyrup]

As a fan, I didn't get off to a great start this year, missing a great number of games due to work but now I'm just missing them by choice. It feels like this train has completely come off the rails. It might drop back on but in the mean time, I'm really not all that interested watching this slide. Does this make me fickle? Okay, sure... I can live with that. One win in regulation over the last month though just isn't my idea of fun or good entertainment though.

I hope they get this mess sorted but for now, I've got better ways to spend my time. Sure, I'll continue to check the scores and keep up with Leaf related news (the Leafs aren't and never will be dead to me) but like I said, pass for now...

Note: No disrespect to those of you committed to every minute. In fact, a hearty kudos! - Just not my cup of tea. I don't have the stomach for it these days.

 

[Highlander]

It s not much fun at all, I think Coach's decision to keep playing lugnuts like Orr, Frazer and Frazer etc has been insane and I also wonder where we would be if Bolland, Bozak and Lupul had been healthy. The wheels seemed to stop rotation with Bolland going out, like steam out of a bag.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Mirtle with another well argued piece.

Some of the more interesting parts:

Not only did those working in analytics around the game roundly predict a falloff for the Leafs, but this is a team that finished last season playing very much like they have in this one. Over the final 15 games of the regular season, for example, they were outshot an average of 33.2 to 24.3 in large part due to coach Randy Carlyle taking minutes away from some of his more talented players ? Phil Kessel, Mikhail Grabovski, Clarke MacArthur and Phaneuf all had declines of between two and five minutes per game ? and distributing them to bigger, slower options.

So when management sought to give Carlyle a more Carlyle-like roster in the summer, it merely locked in some of the problems that were becoming increasingly apparent late last year.

A lack of upgrades at the Leafs two weakest positions ? centre and the blueline ? also meant the team?s strengths would again be in goal and on the wing, which doesn?t fit with the coach?s desire to get away from being a ?rush team.?

...

Nonis also put Toronto so close to the cap and dedicated so many roster spots to one-dimensional players like enforcers that they couldn?t carry a 23-man roster to start the year, making a lack of depth another foreseeable issue.

...

The Leafs record against the 16 teams ahead of them in the standings is only 6-9-2, and they?ve been outscored 2.94 to 2.29 and outshot by 10.9 a night in those 17 games.

...

Expectations, in other words, remain incredibly high within the organization ? so high that they?re out of line with their talent level.

Blame the heady days of the Leafs first playoff appearance in nine years back in May for setting that bar. Seven months later, however, they?re little comfort, and the reality that?s setting in is a harsh one.

This very well may be what they really are.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/why-the-leafs-struggles-shouldnt-be-a-surprise/article15968208/?cmpid=rss1&click=dlvr.it

 

[ZBBM]

That's a good analysis, though I have to say that its main points were all anticipated on this board last summer, and in the some quarters of the media.  Again, it's as if Nonis has molded, or allowed RC to mold, the team into a version of what worked ca. 2007 ... which doesn't apply anymore.

 

[Kin]

Again, it's as if Nonis has molded, or allowed RC to mold, the team into a version of what worked ca. 2007 ... which doesn't apply anymore.

What worked in 2007 that doesn't work anymore?

 

[ZBBM]

Again, it's as if Nonis has molded, or allowed RC to mold, the team into a version of what worked ca. 2007 ... which doesn't apply anymore.

What worked in 2007 that doesn't work anymore?

A bottom six of plumbers, and Niedermayer/Pronger.

 

[Kin]

A bottom six of plumbers, and Niedermayer/Pronger.

I'm confused. You think the Moen-Niedermayer-Pahlsson line would be ineffective in today's NHL as a 3rd line? You think Niedermayer-Pronger would be an ineffective combo?

 

[ZBBM]

A bottom six of plumbers, and Niedermayer/Pronger.

I'm confused. You think the Moen-Niedermayer-Pahlsson line would be ineffective in today's NHL as a 3rd line? You think Niedermayer-Pronger would be an ineffective combo?

No, I think that line was far too good to be called plumbers, and I think that Neidermayer and Pronger literally aren't working these days.

 

[Kin]

No, I think that line was far too good to be called plumbers, and I think that Neidermayer and Pronger literally aren't working these days.

So...I'm confused. Do you think Carlyle wants to sign Niedermayer and Pronger? Because otherwise it sounds a lot like you're saying that Carlyle's strategy would work if they had good enough players.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

A bottom six of plumbers, and Niedermayer/Pronger.

Two of the Hall of Fame d-men of the last 20 years sure helps.

 

[Bender]

I forgot that HBO's 24/7 is starting soon. At least it'll be dramatic!

 

[bustaheims]

markhmasters: RT @LeafsPR Leafs have assigned forward Carter Ashton to the Toronto Marlies (AHL). Forward Troy Bodie has been recalled from the #Marlies

Deck chairs on the Titanic?

 

[mr grieves]

Yeah but Smith is playing well. He shouldn't be bumped because Peter effing Holland is Peter effing Holland. Say what you want about McClement but he's paid his dues both on this team and in this league. He's being rewarded for that. Holland has to earn his ice time. He just so happened to get traded to a team with a coach who doesn't use his 4th line.

As long as Smith keeps playing well, Holland is on the 4th line. He has to make the most of it.

And what exactly do you envision that being?

Working hard in practice, having effective shifts at both ends of the ice, not taking penalties, playing physically, winning face offs. The little things.

So, nothing that increases the likelihood of winning hockey games by providing what this team most desperately needs. But at least the moral melodrama of dues paid and big breaks is playing out according to script.

As I said above, how does putting a guy who has literally done nothing at the NHL level, other than get drafted and have a positive scouting report, help the Leafs win games over a guy who has at least proven he can play in the league for more than 36 games?

12 GP / 142m TOI / 4G / 2A / 6P / +3

 

[TML fan]

Yeah but Smith is playing well. He shouldn't be bumped because Peter effing Holland is Peter effing Holland. Say what you want about McClement but he's paid his dues both on this team and in this league. He's being rewarded for that. Holland has to earn his ice time. He just so happened to get traded to a team with a coach who doesn't use his 4th line.

As long as Smith keeps playing well, Holland is on the 4th line. He has to make the most of it.

And what exactly do you envision that being?

Working hard in practice, having effective shifts at both ends of the ice, not taking penalties, playing physically, winning face offs. The little things.

So, nothing that increases the likelihood of winning hockey games by providing what this team most desperately needs. But at least the moral melodrama of dues paid and big breaks is playing out according to script.

As I said above, how does putting a guy who has literally done nothing at the NHL level, other than get drafted and have a positive scouting report, help the Leafs win games over a guy who has at least proven he can play in the league for more than 36 games?

12 GP / 142m TOI / 4G / 2A / 6P / +3

You know you're not making a point right? I never said Holland should never be moved up, just that he has to earn it. Do you think that maybe he did?

 

[maplesyrup]

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Yeah but Smith is playing well. He shouldn't be bumped because Peter effing Holland is Peter effing Holland. Say what you want about McClement but he's paid his dues both on this team and in this league. He's being rewarded for that. Holland has to earn his ice time. He just so happened to get traded to a team with a coach who doesn't use his 4th line.

As long as Smith keeps playing well, Holland is on the 4th line. He has to make the most of it.

And what exactly do you envision that being?

Working hard in practice, having effective shifts at both ends of the ice, not taking penalties, playing physically, winning face offs. The little things.

So, nothing that increases the likelihood of winning hockey games by providing what this team most desperately needs. But at least the moral melodrama of dues paid and big breaks is playing out according to script.

As I said above, how does putting a guy who has literally done nothing at the NHL level, other than get drafted and have a positive scouting report, help the Leafs win games over a guy who has at least proven he can play in the league for more than 36 games?

12 GP / 142m TOI / 4G / 2A / 6P / +3

You know you're not making a point right? I never said Holland should never be moved up, just that he has to earn it. Do you think that maybe he did?

Younger players are played ahead of more veteran players all the time coming from the AHL or junior.  It's a pretty common thing.  You see examples of it even on the Leafs right now.

 

[moon111]

Yeah but Smith is playing well. He shouldn't be bumped because Peter effing Holland is Peter effing Holland. Say what you want about McClement but he's paid his dues both on this team and in this league. He's being rewarded for that. Holland has to earn his ice time. He just so happened to get traded to a team with a coach who doesn't use his 4th line.

As long as Smith keeps playing well, Holland is on the 4th line. He has to make the most of it.

And what exactly do you envision that being?

Working hard in practice, having effective shifts at both ends of the ice, not taking penalties, playing physically, winning face offs. The little things.

So, nothing that increases the likelihood of winning hockey games by providing what this team most desperately needs. But at least the moral melodrama of dues paid and big breaks is playing out according to script.

As I said above, how does putting a guy who has literally done nothing at the NHL level, other than get drafted and have a positive scouting report, help the Leafs win games over a guy who has at least proven he can play in the league for more than 36 games?

12 GP / 142m TOI / 4G / 2A / 6P / +3

You know you're not making a point right? I never said Holland should never be moved up, just that he has to earn it. Do you think that maybe he did?

Younger players are played ahead of more veteran players all the time coming from the AHL or junior.  It's a pretty common thing.  You see examples of it even on the Leafs right now.

The Leafs have this kid on forward that they usually play ahead of Smithson, Orr, McClement, Lupul, Clarkson, Bodie, Smith, Raymond, Bozak, Bolland, and Kulemin.

 

[TML fan]

Yeah but Smith is playing well. He shouldn't be bumped because Peter effing Holland is Peter effing Holland. Say what you want about McClement but he's paid his dues both on this team and in this league. He's being rewarded for that. Holland has to earn his ice time. He just so happened to get traded to a team with a coach who doesn't use his 4th line.

As long as Smith keeps playing well, Holland is on the 4th line. He has to make the most of it.

And what exactly do you envision that being?

Working hard in practice, having effective shifts at both ends of the ice, not taking penalties, playing physically, winning face offs. The little things.

So, nothing that increases the likelihood of winning hockey games by providing what this team most desperately needs. But at least the moral melodrama of dues paid and big breaks is playing out according to script.

As I said above, how does putting a guy who has literally done nothing at the NHL level, other than get drafted and have a positive scouting report, help the Leafs win games over a guy who has at least proven he can play in the league for more than 36 games?

12 GP / 142m TOI / 4G / 2A / 6P / +3

You know you're not making a point right? I never said Holland should never be moved up, just that he has to earn it. Do you think that maybe he did?

Younger players are played ahead of more veteran players all the time coming from the AHL or junior.  It's a pretty common thing.  You see examples of it even on the Leafs right now.

You also see examples of it working the other way, even on the Leafs right now. I mean, we all know Rielly is a more talented player than Fraser, but Fraser has been around and that earned him the right to make the choice of whether or not to play him a difficult one. I don't understand the resistence to a young player having to prove his worth to his team, particularly the team he was just traded to. I was never opposed to Holland being moved up in the lineup. I just suggested that he maybe has to earn the trust of the coaching staff to get it. Now that he has, he's making the most of it. Good for him and good for the Leafs. I just think that it was his ability to make the most of his limited time that earned him the position he's in now. So congratulations to him. He passed probation. Now get to work kid.