Nonis using depth to go shopping....

[Kin]

Sure fine, let me re-word it.  We put in the deal that we talk to him first and see if there is interest in signing or have a contract in place and once the deal goes through, he signs it.  He can't sign an extension before the deal is made. 

As busta points out, that isn't really possible.

 

[bustaheims]

Is there risk sure?  Give me an alternative for a #1 center that we can possibly attain at this point in time?  You can name anyone and there is still risk.

Then maybe now is not the time to try to attain that #1 centre. But, you know where the Leafs might be able to find one with minimal risk attached? In the draft.

And the thing is, if you make a mistake here, you lose a first round draft pick in a weaker than normal draft where scouts aren't sure who will pan out and they can't even nail down a consensus 1 through 10.  But people are ok with trading for Luongo who may or may not pan out even in the next 2-3yrs let alone be stuck with him and his contract that will last us another 10yrs?

You lose a top 5 pick in the draft, which, even in a weaker draft, has a strong possibility of being a positive contributor to the team for 7 or more seasons. Heck, I'll take 7 years of a 2nd liner over 1 year of Staal. And, no one is okay with trading the pick for Luongo and most people have issues with his contract, but, if you can get him for cheap, then you do it and worry about the contract if/when it actually becomes an issue. Staal's contract (or lack there of after the 12/13 season) is already an issue and part of the reason Pittsburgh is said to be considering moving him.

 

[Kin]

And the thing is, if you make a mistake here, you lose a first round draft pick in a weaker than normal draft where scouts aren't sure who will pan out and they can't even nail down a consensus 1 through 10.

Has there ever been a draft in history with a consensus 1 through 10?

 

[jonlleafs]

Is there risk sure?  Give me an alternative for a #1 center that we can possibly attain at this point in time?  You can name anyone and there is still risk.

Then maybe now is not the time to try to attain that #1 centre. But, you know where the Leafs might be able to find one with minimal risk attached? In the draft.

And the thing is, if you make a mistake here, you lose a first round draft pick in a weaker than normal draft where scouts aren't sure who will pan out and they can't even nail down a consensus 1 through 10.  But people are ok with trading for Luongo who may or may not pan out even in the next 2-3yrs let alone be stuck with him and his contract that will last us another 10yrs?

You lose a top 5 pick in the draft, which, even in a weaker draft, has a strong possibility of being a positive contributor to the team for 7 or more seasons. Heck, I'll take 7 years of a 2nd liner over 1 year of Staal. And, no one is okay with trading the pick for Luongo and most people have issues with his contract, but, if you can get him for cheap, then you do it and worry about the contract if/when it actually becomes an issue. Staal's contract (or lack there of after the 12/13 season) is already an issue and part of the reason Pittsburgh is said to be considering moving him.

I would be ok with keeping the draft pick and picking our own center and being patient while he develops.  However, I wouldn't expect that we make the playoffs next year.  I would be disappointed but I could live with it and let Burke continue the rebuild.  I just don't think the fan base would be up for that.

 

[bustaheims]

I would be ok with keeping the draft pick and picking our own center and being patient while he develops.  However, I wouldn't expect that we make the playoffs next year.  I would be disappointed but I could live with it and let Burke continue the rebuild.  I just don't think the fan base would be up for that.

Improved defensive play and goaltending and the Leafs are a playoff team, 1st line centre or not. In fact, without those things, they're not a playoff team even with a true 1st line centre.

 

[jonlleafs]

And the thing is, if you make a mistake here, you lose a first round draft pick in a weaker than normal draft where scouts aren't sure who will pan out and they can't even nail down a consensus 1 through 10.

Has there ever been a draft in history with a consensus 1 through 10?

Ok you know what I mean here.  You're quabbling over every word.  This is a weak draft.  It tails off pretty quickly.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/16/draft-could-be-weakest-in-years

 

[CarltonTheBear]

And the thing is, if you make a mistake here, you lose a first round draft pick in a weaker than normal draft where scouts aren't sure who will pan out and they can't even nail down a consensus 1 through 10.

Has there ever been a draft in history with a consensus 1 through 10?

Ok you know what I mean here.  You're quabbling over every word.  This is a weak draft.  It tails off pretty quickly.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/16/draft-could-be-weakest-in-years

It might tail off quickly, but the general consensus is that it doesn't happen until after the top-10 or so. So there's nothing wrong with our pick. I'd rather have a top-5 pick this year than last year.

 

[Kin]

Ok you know what I mean here.  You're quabbling over every word.  This is a weak draft.  It tails off pretty quickly.

I think you're exaggerating(as evidenced by saying things about this draft that are true of all drafts) and, more to the point, ignoring the historical realities of so-called "weak" drafts. Drafts without a ton of agreement often mean the best players are available throughout the draft. Having the #1 pick in a draft without a sure thing would stink. Having the #5 pick without a sure thing available is more or less par for the course

 

[jonlleafs]

Ok you know what I mean here.  You're quabbling over every word.  This is a weak draft.  It tails off pretty quickly.

Drafts without a ton of agreement often mean the best players are available throughout the draft.

Well, you're assuming like playing roulette that past history will also dictate the present.  And you're assuming that there are players all over the draft and assuming #5 will allow us to pick one of these said best players.  Anyways, any draft is a risk and so is trading for a guy who is not locked up long term.  So, what if we chose an Daigle instead of a Patrick Kane?  If we traded the pick at least we know what we got.  But hey, I'm happy with either strategy.  I'm here for the long haul and am patient for a real rebuild even if it means a few more years and using our own draft picks.  I was one of the few against the Kessel trade at the beginning.  I have come to live with the trade better or worse.

Off topic, you're not a lawyer are you by any chance?

 

[bustaheims]

It might tail off quickly, but the general consensus is that it doesn't happen until after the top-10 or so. So there's nothing wrong with our pick. I'd rather have a top-5 pick this year than last year.

Yeah. What this draft seems to be missing is the tier of player that generally comes in the back half of the 1st round. The top end of the draft, while not historically good, is still on par with that of the average draft, I'd say. It's debatable as to whether there's a franchise level talent in there, but, there are definitely some high quality prospects.

 

[Kin]

Drafts without a ton of agreement often mean the best players are available throughout the draft.

Well, you're assuming like playing roulette that past history will also dictate the present.  And you're assuming that there are players all over the draft and assuming #5 will allow us to pick one of these said best players. 

I'm assuming neither. It's why I said "often" as opposed to "always".

 

[jonlleafs]

Drafts without a ton of agreement often mean the best players are available throughout the draft.

Well, you're assuming like playing roulette that past history will also dictate the present.  And you're assuming that there are players all over the draft and assuming #5 will allow us to pick one of these said best players. 

I'm assuming neither. It's why I said "often" as opposed to "always".

"Often" is still an assumption you're using to predict the future.

 

[Kin]

"Often" is still an assumption you're using to predict the future.

No. "Often" is referring exclusively to the past. I'm pointing out a truth about the draft's history. This upcoming draft may be an aberration, good or bad.

The difference is your opinion of the draft seems largely shaped by scouts, who often struggle to assess individuals, and their attempts to evaluate the entire draft class. All I'm saying is that even if they're right there's no real historical evidence that the pick loses value.

 

[Redleaf]

That sounds about right. It could be one of the busiest summers ever for the Leafs. Hopefully we haven't built up our expectations too much as to what Burke can pull off. But I'm pretty pumped nonetheless.

I don't think the Leafs will be as busy as some people want/expect them to be. My guess is a couple depth signings and maybe one major trade (likely for a goalie) and that'll be about it. Prices for UFAs and in trades are likely to be weird this summer with the uncertainty around the new CBA. Every June we hear about there being a lot of trade talk and how it's going to be the most exciting trade season ever and so on, and pretty much every year, there are a couple notable deals (mostly within a week of the draft) and everything else is business as usual.

I don't know how busy they will be, but I do know that Burke must be feeling the pressure to upgrade his current roster. He can't keep his job with the kinds of results he's had so far and Leafs nation is nothing if not impatient. I think Burke will be hard-pressed to sell his usual "I'm happy with this team/I believe in these guys/etc" this year.

Agreed, and I must admit I will be pretty disappointed if Burke doesn't land at least ONE (or possibly two) of these players this summer...(I realize some are real long shots)

- Justin Schultz
- Roberto Luongo
- Jordon Staal
- Zach Parise
- Rick Nash
- Ryan Suter
- Nail Yakupov
- Bobby Ryan

I thought I would update my 'magic beans' list of hopefuls for this off season. Again I emphasize getting one or two of these players would make me pretty happy. Getting 3 or more would having me traipsing more cows into town looking for the bean trader.

 

[Corn Flake]

Well I know something good is going to happen between 8:05 and 9:35 pm tomorrow night beacuse I will be on a plane home and not able to follow the draft.  Guaranteed stuff happens when i'm not able to follow the Leafs for whatevever reason.

 

[Redleaf]

Well I know something good is going to happen between 8:05 and 9:35 pm tomorrow night beacuse I will be on a plane home and not able to follow the draft.  Guaranteed stuff happens when i'm not able to follow the Leafs for whatevever reason.

Take your time! 

 

[rdowdall]

Well I know something good is going to happen between 8:05 and 9:35 pm tomorrow night beacuse I will be on a plane home and not able to follow the draft.  Guaranteed stuff happens when i'm not able to follow the Leafs for whatevever reason.

So, we'd like for you to go to an Arctic outpost between the months of October and June.....

 

[Britishbulldog]

Well I know something good is going to happen between 8:05 and 9:35 pm tomorrow night beacuse I will be on a plane home and not able to follow the draft.  Guaranteed stuff happens when i'm not able to follow the Leafs for whatevever reason.

So, we'd like for you to go to an Arctic outpost between the months of October and June.....

;D

 

[Corn Flake]

Well I know something good is going to happen between 8:05 and 9:35 pm tomorrow night beacuse I will be on a plane home and not able to follow the draft.  Guaranteed stuff happens when i'm not able to follow the Leafs for whatevever reason.

So, we'd like for you to go to an Arctic outpost between the months of October and June.....

:-*

 

[KW Sluggo]

Re: Burke using depth to go shopping....

Just when might this shopping expedition take place?