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Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

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L K said:
I wonder if we played him with someone other than McClement if something might change.  Probably not, but might be worth it to try and get some more defensive responsibility in the top 6.

This season Kulemin's corsi rating with McClement on the ice is 33.3%. With Raymond it's 50%. With Lupul t's 42.9%. With Kadri it's 48.9%.

Whichever team signs Kulemin for dirt cheap this summer is going to owe Carlyle and Nonis a gift basket.
 
Last night's loss has nothing to do with coaching. Screaming for his head is shortsighted at best.

When you have a group of 23 players coughing up the puck and players skating like they're stuck in mud it has nothing to do with coaching. It has to do with players that simply put in a terrible effort and it showed.

Giving up 2 on 1's isn't part of any coaching system. It's part of a poor team showing they are poor at playing the sport.

Franson and Gardiner should be sat up in the press box for a couple games. Both were terrible.....no scratch that, horrible last night.
 
On a more serious note, I think that Peter Laviolette would be a fantastic coach for this team. And he probably won't be available for very long.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
Last night's loss has nothing to do with coaching. Screaming for his head is shortsighted at best.

This is hardly the first time it's been brought up.  It's been discussed in most GDT's this season.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
Last night's loss has nothing to do with coaching. Screaming for his head is shortsighted at best.

When you have a group of 23 players coughing up the puck and players skating like they're stuck in mud it has nothing to do with coaching. It has to do with players that simply put in a terrible effort and it showed.

Giving up 2 on 1's isn't part of any coaching system. It's part of a poor team showing they are poor at playing the sport.

Franson and Gardiner should be sat up in the press box for a couple games. Both were terrible.....no scratch that, horrible last night.

The team definitely sucked last night, and by no means do any of them get a pass on that loss.  Everyone contributed to that stinkfest.

But Carlyle is at the top of the list, for a number of reasons:

1.  He dressed both Orr and McLaren against a team with no real fighters.  Combined, they have ZERO points and 9 shots in a combined 34 games, and are -3.  Even after they were down 4-0 these guys were getting offensive zone starts.

And neither of them fought, so WTF?

And who were his healthy scratches?  Holland and Smith: 7 points, 17 shots, and +1 in 17 games.

2.  After two goals are let in within 22 seconds, Carlyle just stands there behind the bench chewing his gum, and says ZERO words to his team.  Every time the camera was on him last night, he was just standing there, hopeless.  I assume he said some things during the intermissions, but he made the absolute minimum effort to fire up, guide, or, you know, coach his team during each period.  I'm not even sure if he used his time-out.

3.  I think most coaches would have pulled Reimer after that 3rd goal - not because Reimer was stinking it up, exactly, but because there was NO life in the team at all, and Reims was getting hung out to dry.  He faced 50 shots in a game that went through overtime into a 4-round shoot-out only two days before, so it's reasonable to assume the guy might be a little tired, too; Bernier was fresh and putting him in could have at least done SOMETHING to the game.  Again, Carlyle just sat there and did nothing until long after the game was a joke.

4.  The Leafs are a giveaway machine and Carlyle has done nothing effective to change this - if anything, I think he's made it worse.  There's a reason this team is being outshot like any other, regardless of which line is on the ice - his system does not work. 

These stupid stretch-pass-tip-in plays that he seems to insist on running do not work.  That's what Gardiner was trying to accomplish when he iced the puck in what led to the 1st goal.  It's a stupid play, and a sane coach would tell his players to cut that nonsense out - instead, it's Carlyle's go-to play.

I'm not even going to go into detail on the "outshot 90% of the time" stuff, or the turnovers, or the stuff about how the Leafs are only where they are now due to unusually and possibly unsustainably good goaltending because we've all heard that before.  But there it is.

5.  Even if it somehow isn't his fault, coaches are usually the first to go when their teams are stinking it up.  Carlyle should be no different.

This is a good team, even injured, and games like these are incredibly winnable.  They didn't just lose this one, they humiliated themselves, and the most frustrating thing about it for me was watching Carlyle just stand there a cardboard cut-out.  If there's any silver lining to this loss, I hope it's that Carlyle either shapes up or ships out.
 
Stickytape said:
This is a good team, even injured, and games like these are incredibly winnable.  They didn't just lose this one, they humiliated themselves, and the most frustrating thing about it for me was watching Carlyle just stand there a cardboard cut-out.  If there's any silver lining to this loss, I hope it's that Carlyle either shapes up or ships out.

While I can't disagree with most of what you say, I do take issue with your last paragraph.

This is not a good team. Good teams do not lose to the Sabres and the Blue Jackets...twice. I don't care what the coaching system is. They are not being held back. They are given free reign. They consistantly make boneheaded, ridiculous plays. Gardiner standing behind the net, watching the play develop on the 1st goal is just one example from last night. That is not coaching, that is lack of hockey sense, plain and simple.

As for Carlyle standing behind the bench like a statue being frustrating, I can't disagree. That being said, it's far from the most frustrating part of this team's play.

Some people are of the opinion that a coach could shape this team into being a real contender.

I think the opposite. I believe this team played far above their heads last year(which doesn't say much).  This, in my opinion, has led to increased expectations from fans.

There is a severe lack of decision making ability on this team and hockey sense is in question with a lot of players.

My personal opinion is that Gardiner and Franson have shown all they can be and will ever be. I personally would ship them out, but that is just my opinion. I'll get ripped a new one for that above sentence, but I just don't see either of them shaping into form. Franson is far to inconsistant. His skating is horrible. Gardiner can skate like the wind but severely lacks hockey sense.

I am also not sold on Kadri as I go back and forth on what kind of player he really is.


I have personally been in Carlyle's corner for most of this year. Not because I necessarily agree with his decisions, but that I think he is only part of the problem and has received the short end of the stick around here.

Players like Lupul, Kessel, and Kadri need to be called out more often as none of them are performing close to how they should be/are paid to be.
 
Potvin29 said:
OldTimeHockey said:
Last night's loss has nothing to do with coaching. Screaming for his head is shortsighted at best.

This is hardly the first time it's been brought up.  It's been discussed in most GDT's this season.

Last night's loss was a top to bottom disaster coaching included.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
Players like Lupul, Kessel, and Kadri need to be called out more often as none of them are performing close to how they should be/are paid to be.

The truth is, that trio has only shown up a few games this year. With that extension he signed, Kessel in particular has to raise his game because expectations have gotten higher.
 
Snoopzilla said:
OldTimeHockey said:
Players like Lupul, Kessel, and Kadri need to be called out more often as none of them are performing close to how they should be/are paid to be.

The truth is, that trio has only shown up a few games this year. With that extension he signed, Kessel in particular has to raise his game because expectations have gotten higher.

Kessel? He has 20% of the team's goals this season.  He's not only shown up for a few games this season.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
Stickytape said:
This is a good team, even injured, and games like these are incredibly winnable.  They didn't just lose this one, they humiliated themselves, and the most frustrating thing about it for me was watching Carlyle just stand there a cardboard cut-out.  If there's any silver lining to this loss, I hope it's that Carlyle either shapes up or ships out.

While I can't disagree with most of what you say, I do take issue with your last paragraph.

This is not a good team. Good teams do not lose to the Sabres and the Blue Jackets...twice. I don't care what the coaching system is. They are not being held back. They are given free reign. They consistantly make boneheaded, ridiculous plays. Gardiner standing behind the net, watching the play develop on the 1st goal is just one example from last night. That is not coaching, that is lack of hockey sense, plain and simple.

As for Carlyle standing behind the bench like a statue being frustrating, I can't disagree. That being said, it's far from the most frustrating part of this team's play.

Some people are of the opinion that a coach could shape this team into being a real contender.

I think the opposite. I believe this team played far above their heads last year(which doesn't say much).  This, in my opinion, has led to increased expectations from fans.

There is a severe lack of decision making ability on this team and hockey sense is in question with a lot of players.

My personal opinion is that Gardiner and Franson have shown all they can be and will ever be. I personally would ship them out, but that is just my opinion. I'll get ripped a new one for that above sentence, but I just don't see either of them shaping into form. Franson is far to inconsistant. His skating is horrible. Gardiner can skate like the wind but severely lacks hockey sense.

I am also not sold on Kadri as I go back and forth on what kind of player he really is.


I have personally been in Carlyle's corner for most of this year. Not because I necessarily agree with his decisions, but that I think he is only part of the problem and has received the short end of the stick around here.

Players like Lupul, Kessel, and Kadri need to be called out more often as none of them are performing close to how they should be/are paid to be.

I'm not a fan of RC's but OTOH don't feel as strongly about getting rid of him as some others do.  I am pretty close to in full agreement with you, except for your assessment of Gardiner, who I think has lots of potential.

I also fault Nonis for (as I see it) crafting the team over the summer to fit the coach, instead of building on the strengths of last season and asking the coach to adjust. 

I get a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing is a half-baked attempt to win the Cup, ca. 2007 thinking.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
OldTimeHockey said:
Stickytape said:
This is a good team, even injured, and games like these are incredibly winnable.  They didn't just lose this one, they humiliated themselves, and the most frustrating thing about it for me was watching Carlyle just stand there a cardboard cut-out.  If there's any silver lining to this loss, I hope it's that Carlyle either shapes up or ships out.

While I can't disagree with most of what you say, I do take issue with your last paragraph.

This is not a good team. Good teams do not lose to the Sabres and the Blue Jackets...twice. I don't care what the coaching system is. They are not being held back. They are given free reign. They consistantly make boneheaded, ridiculous plays. Gardiner standing behind the net, watching the play develop on the 1st goal is just one example from last night. That is not coaching, that is lack of hockey sense, plain and simple.

As for Carlyle standing behind the bench like a statue being frustrating, I can't disagree. That being said, it's far from the most frustrating part of this team's play.

Some people are of the opinion that a coach could shape this team into being a real contender.

I think the opposite. I believe this team played far above their heads last year(which doesn't say much).  This, in my opinion, has led to increased expectations from fans.

There is a severe lack of decision making ability on this team and hockey sense is in question with a lot of players.

My personal opinion is that Gardiner and Franson have shown all they can be and will ever be. I personally would ship them out, but that is just my opinion. I'll get ripped a new one for that above sentence, but I just don't see either of them shaping into form. Franson is far to inconsistant. His skating is horrible. Gardiner can skate like the wind but severely lacks hockey sense.

I am also not sold on Kadri as I go back and forth on what kind of player he really is.


I have personally been in Carlyle's corner for most of this year. Not because I necessarily agree with his decisions, but that I think he is only part of the problem and has received the short end of the stick around here.

Players like Lupul, Kessel, and Kadri need to be called out more often as none of them are performing close to how they should be/are paid to be.

I'm not a fan of RC's but OTOH don't feel as strongly about getting rid of him as some others do.  I am pretty close to in full agreement with you, except for your assessment of Gardiner, who I think has lots of potential.

I also fault Nonis for (as I see it) crafting the team over the summer to fit the coach, instead of building on the strengths of last season and asking the coach to adjust. 

I get a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing is a half-baked attempt to win the Cup, ca. 2007 thinking.

I completely agree that Gardiner has potential and a boatload of skill. My hesitation with him is his lack of ability to make the right choices on the ice. It's not isolated, it's been ongoing.

 
Lets not give up on them yet. Still a young team and agree on some adjustments, but not give up on potential that need more direction. RC, may need to make some adjustments with his team. imo.
 
I think last night was a crossroads game - they either wake up, or this is the point where we see the season unravel.
 
Joe S. said:
I think last night was a crossroads game - they either wake up, or this is the point where we see the season unravel.

Falling-Truck.jpg
 
Jonas Siegel ‏@jonasTSN1050 3m
Carlyle wasn't pleased by opposing coach's perception of Leafs as rush team: "...is that what we are? We don?t want to be that."

It's amazing how often Carlyle can leave me speechless.

jtdVKws_medium.png
 
Usually re the Leafs we see coaches kept on well after their best-before date, yet on they go, fans going crazy for a firing that comes way too late.  Maybe this time, with signs of the team turning a deaf ear and/or rejection of the coach's ideas beginning to coalesce, Nonis should pull the plug on this guy. Burke didn't do it on Wilson, who wasn't his coach of choice and the result was terrible. Maybe Nonis should do it, soon, on RC, who also, I think, was not entirely his coach of choice.
 
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